Most of Anime NYC was fine! It’s just that Anime fans, regrettably, were also anime fans while there.
Anime is just animation from Japan. Anime movies and TV shows have very few differences. Obviously TV shows are usually longer and are broken into episodes. TV shows often have lower production values and smaller budgets. They also are shown on TV and not in theaters.
Other than that, they are the same. Some will be age appropriate for you, and some won’t be. Some are full of awful sexual objectification, and some are not. They cover ever possible genre you can imagine. Think about the diversity of western television animation. You have everything from Pepa Pig, Muppet Babies, Ren & Stimpy, The Simpsons, Spongebob, Beavis & Butthead, Dexter’s Lab, Duck Tales, GI Joe, Samurai Jack, Steven Universe, Rick & Morty, Mickey Mouse, Loony Tunes, the diversity is just insane. Anime is just as diverse, regardless of whether it is TV or movies. Same goes for manga.
You are absolutely right that there are a lot of anime with content we both find extremely distasteful. It’s also easy to see as how an outsider to anime you might only see the stereotype and imagery used by anime fans on the Internet and believe that is what anime is all about. Fans who do things like defend that sort of imagery are obviously not helping to remove that image from your brain.
So yes, it is completely understandable why you think what you do, and why that has completely turned you off. However, I also understand the frustration on the other side. You are dismissing not just a genre, but an entire medium. Imagine if someone dismissed all UK TV shows because they really really didn’t like Dr. Who. Obviously that is not representative of all UK TV!
It’s really just a shame because several animated Japanese TV shows are absolute masterpieces. There is a lot of frustration when someone refuses to even give them a chance, like you are, because they are just so unbelievably good we want you to experience their greatness, or at least give them a fair shake. I mean, I dismiss and don’t watch any of the Hollywood Marvel/DC superhero movies, but I saw a bunch before I stopped caring.
You know what the hottest TV anime is right now that everyone is talking about? It’s Carole & Tuesday. It’s a sci-fi show about a singer songwriter duo who live on a terraformed Mars. This is the opening sequence that looks nothing like the stereotype of TV anime you are imagining.
The show is on Netflix, by the way.
What you miss is that there are several shows like this every season. Those are the shows we are watching and you are ignoring in your efforts to avoid the really awful ones. And the fact you have cast too broad a generalization is what causes frustration.
As for everyone else.
If you like pervy stuff that doesn’t make you a bad person. Nothing wrong with that. I mostly don’t like it, but that’s just me.
I also don’t agree that it should somehow be censored or non-existent. Freedom of expression is fine.
The reason I say it is problematic and I don’t want it around is because of the effect it has on the environment. A lot like how actual pollution damages the real environment, this kind of content damages the community. It makes it an uncomfortable and unwelcoming place for many people. Yes, there are very good people who enjoy this kind of content. That’s great for them, and I have nothing against that. The problem is if that content is posted all over the community, or if people are making excuses for that kind of content, then it harms the environment.
There are obviously exceptions, like panfriedmarmot and their partner happily enjoying this stuff together. But for the vast majority of people, that is not how it works. Having that stuff, and defenses of it, here will, for the most part, attract ahegao hoodie type people that we don’t want. For the most part it will also repel people we do want. When I say we, I mean, Rym and I, and the kind of people we want in our community.
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Man, it’s so much easier to go “I like this and you might find it problematic in these ways” than getting super accusatory defensive about things.
Sure, a person might make take your benefit of the doubt and engage in the media and enjoy it. Great! But if a person still feels reserved not to do that, that’s fine too! No one has enough time and energy to consume all media. And people have different takes on media, yourself included. The person might still watch your media and it’ll still make them feel bad. Times change.
It’s easier to go with the flow and stand with your feelings than fight against them. Usually when I hear Rym/Scott criticize something on the podcast; they’ll go “That’s great” or “That shit sucks” and they’ll only continue that conversation if someone (or each other) chooses to engage with them. That’s just how they discuss media.
We’re still going on this?
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Lol you stayed through me saying the food you eat is immoral and me insulting your politics, but when people come after your sexy anime ladies that’s where you draw the line? Like this is the most important argument you’ve had here recently? This is the hill you die on? Bye dude.
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I’ve never said I don’t give anything a chance. I’ve given chances to maybe ten anime TV shows on Netflix just this year. Dragon Prince, Evangelion, more. It doesn’t stick with me. I’ve also tried maybe the same number of animations too. They also didn’t stick with me.
But that’s all beside the point.
It’s also not like dismissing all Uk TV because I don’t like Dr Who.
It’s much more like being recommended some british TV show, looking it up online, and finding most of the images shared from the show feature massive breasts squeezing out of tight costumes on characters that are obviously trying to appeal to 14 year old boys.
I don’t get that from conversations about british TV!!!
I get that 99% of the time from conversations about Japanese TV animation!!!
This is what I don’t like!!! It’s also what you don’t like!!!
I’m not being dismissive of anime, I’m judging how it is portrayed to me via internet discussion channels.
Stop saying I don’t give things a chance. I give actual tv shows and movie chances all the time. What I’m no longer chancing is google image searches for terms I’ve regretted 99% of times in the past!!!
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I’d say not liking one UK TV show is representative. Not liking one probably does mean not liking them all. UK TV is garbage. That’s just me though XD
I agree with Luke on the problem of anime being cursed with perv culture. Entertainment in general has a very white male bias already. Globally speaking. Japan however is seemingly and uniquely extra pervy.
If you have to put in extra effort to find non-problematic anime content, that’s the problem. Despite the existence of non-problematic anime.
That is reason enough for most people that are not desensitised to it to be turned off by the genre/ culture.
The solution is to not have that shit in the first place, but what you gonna do.
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That’s fine then. Just the way you post made it sound as if you were dismissing all tv anime because the community is bad and some shows are bad. You’re not, so that’s cool.
Evangelism is a masterpiece, but I’m not surprised at all you bounced off it. Many do. I’m sure you know dragon prince isn’t anime, but I’m surprised you don’t like it.
I know Dragon Prince isn’t anime. But it’s anime adjacent in that it’s discussed along with anime on your podcast. Like the dracula video game one. Evangelion might be a masterpiece, but I’ve not made time for most masterpiece tv shows, so this one just goes in that box. What was the show about kids going into a hole in the ground? I didn’t click with that one either.
Made in Abyss? That show is also great! You aren’t gripped by the mystery of WTF is going on down at the bottom of the hole?
Did they nix the weird pedo shit from the manga? I know a read a lot of pretty bad stuff, but even I draw the line there, the first time I hit the sketchy-as-fuck bonus art, I was out real fast.
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WTF! I didn’t know about that. God damnit Japan!
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I was chatting with my girlfriend about this whole topic, and she asked how it came up. I said Nier Automata, and she looked it up on google.
In the interest of fairness, and not dismissing something like this in advance without giving it a chance, I decided to make an exception to my “don’t look up anime/anime adjacent stuff online” and gave it a go. Initial impressions:
I don’t want this to be a big “told you so” moment, but it’s not a good start for “if you had an open mind you’ll see it’s not all pervy stuff”. The “this imagery is empowering to women” argument is holding less and less water with me.
The image search results were mostly video game box art, and some screen shots. But nobody is going to have those images as phone backgrounds and desktop wallpapers.
So I checked out the top suggestion which was “nier automata character”. My normal experience of this kind of thing with anime is that there are maybe a few images from the creators, and then 90% is fan art where the character is depicted in ever-decreasing ages and ever-decreasing clothing.
In this case, I’m not sure if the different versions in ever-decreasing clothing is fan art or actual game character designs. Looking at a wiki, it seems the final boss is another android version of the main character, but without the blindfold and you can now see the outlines of the folds of her labia? Great! Now I know where the source of inspiration for the advert on the main google results page.
The “cosplay” suggestion was actually fine. It turns out that the costume itself is pretty badass. You get to be blindfolded and carry a sword? Hell yeah! And because there are actual adult women under the costumes, who look like they are having at least some kind of fun with it, it’s actually appealing. The body shapes aren’t “idealized” to all fuck. There is correct human anatomy on display, which is actually pleasing to my eye (and my girlfriend’s eye), while the video game art and fan art is aesthetically way off the mark.
I don’t see myself ever playing this game.
Next time if you want me to do more research or educate myself about the topic of female representation in anime and anime-adjacent products designed to appeal to adolescent boys, make sure this kind of thing isn’t going to show up in the first pages of google.
As a counter example, I did an image search for “harry potter character” and it was mostly photos. I’m sure the fan art exists, but the THIRD google image result isn’t fan art where they are trying to imagine what Hermione looks like if you could almost see inside her vagina.
That example felt unfair, so I went with “tomb raider character”, which I hoped would be a much better match as a video game with a hyper-sexualized lead character that you watch from behind for the whole game. The results were waaaaaaaaay more in line with what I want from the world. A game series that admits “hey, we went too far with the boob and butt animations, and now Lara Croft is going to be just a hyper competent adventurer who admittedly wears quite tight pants but is otherwise a normal human being”.
I’d totally play a modern Tomb Raider game. The contrast in the depiction of the female character is 100% behind my contrasting desire to play a Tomb Raider over Nier Automata.
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Tomb Raider reboot trilogy was pretty great.
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Yeah, lots of weirdly realistic underage nudity, and the author/artist draws a bunch of pretty sketchy fanservice stuff as chapter/volume art. I looked it up, since your comment got me curious - the anime does tone it way down, and adds some stuff like a bit of Godiva hair to cover things up. I’m not going to say it’s all the worst I’ve ever seen - after all, there’s plenty of shit that’s far worse out there - but it’s definitely more than enough to make me want nowt to do with the whole thing.
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Jesus, thanks for the heads up. It was near the top of my list of series to pick up.
Your spider senses weren’t tingling about that one?
No! The anime was a cute fantasy adventure with awesome creature designs and a cool mystery.
It has ‘Bunny Drop’ written all over it!!