Honestly, what some of you seem to consider “slightly fanservicey” are things I would consider “unacceptable to view in public places.”
When someone publicly enjoys and defends certain media, it definitely informs my opinions about them. E.g., I definitely avoid anyone who wears that ahego hoodie…
I was super surprised the other day when I read something Scott wrote and I actually agreed with it! Please don’t take him and me having any similar opinions about something as us being the same.
Here’s the thing:
I like plenty of perverted things, I’m sure. I’d find it weird if anyone my age doesn’t have some weird attractions or preferences or whatever. There really isn’t anything wrong with enjoying something weird, or problematic. I’m right with WhaleShark on this. Really.
But if I made those weird things part of my every day expression of my personality, that isn’t just me liking weird stuff any more. That’s me projecting that out into the world. If someone already knows about that, and knows it’s not for them, that’s fine! But I’m not going to tell them they’re being closed minded for not exploring the boundaries of what they already find offputting.
It’s fine for you to be enjoy stuff that I find weird. Please don’t try to convince my I won’t find it weird if I do more research. I’ve done the research. I now find my life better by not doing more research.
I also have a better life not listening to advice on this topic from people with anime avatars. The crossover between people who take this personally and those who have anime avatars is about 99%, so for the sake of the 1% of people who can have an intellectual discussion about lolita fashion choices who can also understand that me doing research into that area weirds me out? I’ll not take that chance.
What about when you declared through implication that a specific art piece is offensively objectifying to women…to a woman despite the fact that she explicitly called you out for assigning all women the same standards of male gaze as you have
or when you stated that you are incapable of believing that a woman wearing overtly sexual clothing may have chosen to wear it because she wants to, only that it must be tied to something problematic.
just, fuck man, this is exactly what I called you out for when I jumped into this conversation. Who the hell are you to arbitrate what is and isn’t problematic vs. empowering? 2B crosses the line into problematic territory, at least according a majority of people posting here, but when I asked you to actually provide an argument instead of a mandate you put words in my mouth and started comparing me to bikini-mail apologists and gamergaters. All I did was bring up that people might have different standards of negative sexualization and you labelled me an enemy for daring to not be as a sex-negative as you.
Media needs to be more respectful and inclusive. It needs to objectify characters less, but more specifically it needs to objectify women and minorities far less. As a lefty in a lefty space, I assumed, however foolishly, that I could believe this and also call out creeping repression of sexuality and assumed to be arguing in good faith, but I guess not.
Seems like there was just miscommunication and we don’t disagree?
this whole time I have been restating that agree with your assessment that 2B is objectified, I think we disagree over to what extent, but that’s neither here nor there. I think the main crux of our disagreement(s) stems from whether problematic material can be recuperated or if it’s verboten, and we can argue that till the cows come home.
What I DO disagree with is your overtly authoritarian treatment of your own and other’s opinions, and I try to call that out whenever I can.
What I find constant umbrage with you is your knee-jerk dismissal of anyone not brandishing the exact same form of leftyism as you. I find your attitude overly shaming and alienating,.
I play PUBG. It’s a game where to win you have to shoot people in the face. Not actually, but in a computer game simulation.
My girlfriend really can’t cope with video game depictions of human-on-human violence. She doesn’t like watching it, and will only enjoy PUBG videos where it’s about silly driving stunts. So when we play games together, we play games which don’t revolve around shooting people in the face. Like this year: Subnautica (made by someone who didn’t want to make another game about shooting people in the face), Goose Game, Dream Daddy Dating Simulator.
When I talk to her about my PUBG games I modify my language. I don’t talk about how many “kills” I had in a game, I talk about “knocking someone else out the game” or similar.
She likes watching true-life murder documentaries. I can’t cope with them. Because unlike computer games, at the heart of the entertainment is actually real human suffering. So when she talks about this kind of TV, she prefaces with if at the end (or start) of the story if someone is killed.
Anyway, both of us have something that we enjoy that the other finds distasteful. But we don’t try to impose it on each other, we don’t feel we the other needs to do more research so they can better understand what the other person is comfortable with. We also don’t make either thing such a big part of our identities that we take personal offense when the other person expresses their distaste.
“I don’t respect your opinion, but you need to respect mine”
exact white male attitude I’m talking about
Well I’m glad that’s what you’re taking away from this story.
I know people who vend at cons, who have signs for their booth that literally say things like “Wear Ahego merch, add 25% to the price.”
sigh, I’m prolly gonna regret this google
yeah, a bit.
Oh, it gets worse. Friends at Anime NYC mentioned that they saw multiple people walking around with Ahegao hoodies(some with matching pants) that were entirely made up of very underage characters. There’s motherfuckers out there wearing their pedophilia on their sleeve, literally and figuratively, with zero consequences.
Your exact words in this very thread, and then you post you’re big spiel about how we just need respect each other’s opinions? Fuck off. You do this shit all the time. Get over yourself.
Jeeze…
So bit personal here but I have a like overactive gag reflex. It’s involuntary and very noticeable, often one begets more.
That’s generally a bit embarrassing (though ultimately harmless, I think) and something I try and avoid in public if at all possible. My google brought it out and I’m imagining seeing those gentlemen would have done the same.
I almost went to anime NYC. Glad I stuck to flamecon.
Right. I’ll say it again:
If a person literally has an anime character as an avatar then they are a person who, by definition, so closely associates their personality with their anime intake that it’s impossible for them to see this issue from the outside.
I mean, literally.
This is how I judge your expression of yourself. If you have an anime character avatar, I make judgements on your taste and personality based on that.
I’ve already said that your opinions and tastes are your own. Go wild. They don’t effect me.
You know what does effect me? Blatantly sexist representations of women as a stand-in for culture. Tit windows and upskirt shots as a daily experience on this forum.
I don’t like that material. It doesn’t make me feel comfortable. I’m judging people who bring this into my world negatively. I can’t help it. That’s who I am and what my comfort levels are.
I don’t need to educate myself more on where this material comes from. I know I find so much of it distasteful, and I’m not going to start googling terms to see how close to the line of taste they are.
If someone who didn’t have an anime avatar wanted to talk to me about this, I’d be open to following some links and reading more. But that people with anime avatars are so happy-go-lucky with the blatantly sexist imagery sharing, and argue against it being problematic, they are the people I don’t want to have the conversation with. They just creep me out.
I’ll have a conversation about lolita fashion with a woman who wears it and feels comfortable with it. If that’s not you, and I have to wade through vibes of toxic male gaze, I’m not interested.
I honestly don’t see how me being repulsed by sexist imagery where I’m never sure if I’m going to have pedophile search terms in my browser history, and expressing that view, is suddenly a condemnation of me as a “typical white male”.
If it’s a typical white male thing to want a forum more accepting to women, sign me up!
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I’ll just rephrase @panfriedmarmot’s argument since I think the exact same thing and you have a hangup about a pixel circle.
Every time it’s the same; you come in with your anime=problematic guns firing. There’s a ton of problematic stuff in anime culture, probably a higher concentration than most other groups. There’s also a metric ton of anime that isn’t the least bit problematic, but whenever that comes up you plug your ears and run down this bullshit about how you shouldn’t be expected to internally normalize problematic shit despite the fact that no one is asking you to.
You have an opinion and not only do your reiterate that you’re unwilling to learn or possibly change it, you brag about how much of a better person it makes you. Then you denigrate anyone arguing against as if they’re arguing in favor of problematic shit when all they’re asking if for you to be an iota less like a brick wall.
And now your running off about how we need to respect each other’s opinions and that even though your find it unforgivable for people to like things you hate, nobody should feel bad for liking problematic stuff and it’s just like your opinion man.
You’re toxic as hell.
Okay, I get it. Sorry if I’ve come off as dismissive.
This is a real hangup of mine, and I’ve tried to explain why I don’t feel like “go do more research in an area that you find creepy” isn’t the best way to make me feel less creeped out by it. Kinda the opposite.
nobody is asking you “research” loli or gothic lolita or whatever, can you read the fucking words I type for once?
Maybe try watching an anime? Like Samurai Champloo? Or Fullmetal Alchemist? Akira? Castle in the Sky? Tokyo Godfathers? Doesn’t matter to me, I personally don’t care since I’m not privy to your personal purity test for what constitutes creepy anime stuff or not. I don’t think there’s anything even remotely problematic in those, but I could have forgotten something. If my recommendations paint me as an anime creep in your mind please let me know so we can at least mutually dismiss everything the other says like stubborn assholes.
Anime movies aren’t what I find problematic. I’ve seen plenty of anime movies, including half the movies you mentioned above. I’ve liked a lot of the ones I’ve seen. The ones I’ve liked have been almost universally recommended by film critics, other movie makers, friends of mine and loads of other people. I consider a good movie to be a good movie, be it animation or not, from Japan or not, a movie for children or not.
Anime TV shows I’ve had a mixed reaction to. It’s mostly a stylistic thing, and much of it not being particularly age appropriate to me. Maybe if I’d grown up with watching it. But then I grew up without a TV in the house, and have no attachment or desire to watch cartoons not from Japan or in that style.
The anime culture that arrives at me via images shared on the internet is another issue, and more like the issue I’m bringing up here. As in, exactly the conversation that started this whole discussion.