I think it’s fair to use spoilers to explain something that’s being ragged on in design. It’s necessary for the argument.
What is Tenchi Muyo where it was like “she’s not a child, she’s thousands of years old!”
All of fiction is fiction. The creator made it. If a creator creates problematic art, it’s not somehow magically less problematic because they go through the additional effort to invent a fictional reason for it to be there.
“Oh, the chainmail bikini makes sense because in this universe, X, Y, Z.” LOL
I agree, every time I’m midly confused, or baffled I also insult the things that are baffling me.
I didn’t make this rule up, but it’s one I follow: I try not to buy/watch/display/play anything that I would have a hard time explaining or justifying to my significant other or her friends. If my girlfriend comes over and I have a creepy Hentai statue of some anime girl, there are going to be problems. Tanto Cuore might be a great game, I have no idea, but I’m never going to buy it.
Nier walks right up to that line but doesn’t cross it for me. My girlfriend has watched me play it a couple of times, and the first time she saw it she asked me why the kick-ass robot was dressed as a Gothic maid. After that, she just kind of shrugged and we both agreed that it’s just a “Japan thing.”
You’re not wrong but is there is something problematic about an attractive character in a sexy dress?
How do you feel about Bayonetta?
I agree with this 1000%. It’s gotten a fair bit different since I got to a certain point in my transition, but I would give this advice to any men.
Not a fan for all the reasons we discussed in this thread.
But also, unrelated, not a fan of that entire genre of third person walk around and hit things games.
The latter is legit. I’ve never actually played it, unless you count playing as her in Smash.
But the former is an issue with how you view media in general. You’re assuming the viewer is male. Sexy ladies can be empowering just like they can be insulting. This is what trips up so many people about Bayonetta and (again) Sailor Moon. It’s fine if it makes you uncomfortable as a man, but don’t project that discomfort onto all players.
Don’t mischaracterize me just because I questioned your moral absolutism. It’s clear to me 2B is fetishized. Isabelle is also fetishized by part of the community. Should we not include dog characters in games because of that?
To answer your post further down the line, to what extent is objectification empowering vs. disempowering? Is Ryuko’s outfit whole cloth (heh) inexcusable because a male creator drew a sexy lady despite the fact that her design is clearly antiestablishment by mocking the fascist fashion of the academy? Would it not be problematic if a female designed and drew it? Would it not be problematic if Ryuko was a real person who chose to dress that way?
I can elaborate on my thoughts when I get home from work, but I reject your arguments based solely on your incomplete assumptions and the fact that you assume we are all following the exact same moral framework.
My apologies, I only know the plot through external sources and assumed what i wrote was set up in the opening cutscenes
I know they can be. I know plenty of people of all genders who like these kinds of designs and draw fanart of them and all the rest. The point is that there is absolutely no doubt that that character design is objectifying. The fact that it is far from the worst offender does not make it not guilty.
It was more for @jabrams007 's sake they’re still playing through it.
It’s only objectifying if the character is an object. If she’s a well written protagonist she’s (often) empowering.
Just jumping in to say:
There is a reason I mute all anime/manga threads on this forum. Literally every time I see any image posted from that world, this entire conversation pops into my head.
How do you guys keep looking at this stuff and sharing it and talking about it and thinks it’s all just fine and not problematic?
Sheesh. Grow up and stop making excuses for Lolita imagery. It’s creepy and weird.
My wife and I bonded over cute robot girl figures, moe anime and playing Tanto Cuore…
Luke, just for clarity this conversation has nothing to do with loli/underage girls other than that someone described a dress as gothic lolita which was one, not really correct and two, lolita in a fashion context has nothing to do with underage anime girls.
Agreed. I saw enough grown women dressed in Gothic en Lolita when I was in Japan (this was over 10 years ago, idk if that’s still in vogue) that I really don’t mind it.
There is no doubt that the anime genre has too much problematic issues within it. But I’m not gonna decry hammers because they can break fingers. Genre is a tool and tools can be used for good or for ill.