Star Wars: The Disney Era


#263

Is Greivous a drone?

Of course, in all the movies, R2-D2 rolls around on his feet, obviously on rollers or wheels of some kind, rather than walking like a gonk groid.


#264

Greivous was proto-Vader.

He was a Kaleesh (Alien species, that’s very Mongol-inspired) that was in a shuttle accident and was rebuilt as a Cyborg. He had no actual force ability, his skill with Lightsabers coming from Droid-like reflexes.


#265

I draw a distinction between Gray Jedi as a philosophy and Gray Jedi as a political consequence. The political side, I have no issue. The philosophical side, by and large, is a ridiculous argument to the middle.

I mean dialectical monism is hardly a new idea, so I really don’t understand the need to insert a third philosophical path into the existing construct.


#266

The first one I recall was from the original KOTOR game where you find an exiled jedi knight who basically left the order over his love interest. I don’t think that qualifies for the “both sides” thing. He was just a strong force user who couldn’t reconcile something about himself with the rules of the order. Just as easily could be a dark side user (emotional, passionate, etc) that doesn’t want to do badwrong evil things. Or any force sensitive that doesn’t really subscribe to the extremes of either side.

Really it should be the default state.


#267

Grey Jedi as an order is a bit lame.

Grey Jedi as a catchall blanket term for those who arent faithful Jedi or Sith is fine but its also indicative of a need for maybe more detail in the series, if we are to broach the subject.

I would love to see alternate philosophies that arent beholden to the Jedi<>Sith spectrum.

Id like to see the group of Force Users who work on a theory of nonviolence and strictly and openly use their force powers to be better leaders and politicians. They dont rely on lightsabers but on mind tricks.

Or a philosophy of Robin Hood type Forcers who decry the Jedi and Sith and all the massive power structures and work more to distribute the wealth. This could be fundamentally the equivalent of the Jedi religion albeit different tennents and priorities. Imagine Rose with the force powers and training equivalency of any Jedi. Out busting casinos and stealing from the Empire and freeing Slaves from the Hutts. But still having room to fight with emotion, to love the Finns out there or be angry when they see kids being whipping boys.

One of these users might have straight up murdered Watto to save Anakin as vengence for the dude being a slave owning ass. And not faced discipline from their order. (Local statutes notwithstanding)

One could go on and on, I’m sure this stuff is in the old EU, but i havnt read it nor does it seem to apply anymore. Nevertheless, there ought to be room in the story for more than just the philosophies of the pure uncompromised Jedi or evil, free wheeling Sith.


#268

I do. Nerds want lore. If you don’t give them lore, they either invent some, or assume it’s a mystery and bend themselves into knots trying to “solve” it. So what do you expect out of a universe that spent 30 years being written by nerds, for nerds? Want someone who has the force, and is trained and effective like a jedi, but isn’t a Jedi? Get ready for some MOTHERFUCKIN LORE.


#269

I played a light side sith assassin in the Kotor MMO and I liked the way that played out. You were still all about power and overthrowing your master, you just were less of an asshole about it. It kinda played like you were a haughty sort of arrogant person that killed anyone that was a threat to you straight up and spared all the useless pawns with full knowledge that they’re beneath you. Cocky. Overwhelming. But not pointlessly cruel, which is what a lot of the “dark side” choices were. Maybe part of that is just that the game went full blown cartoonishly stupidly evil for dark side options. You shouldn’t have to murder the younglings and pointlessly torture everyone to prove you’re the bad guy.


#270

Obviously. We all know the Dark Side is stronger.


#271

A force user is really just a martial artist. It just so happens that these martial arts also include an actual magical component. Dark and light side are different the same way kung fu and jiu jitsu are different. Just like in real life, their practitioners often argue about which one is more powerful. There are many techniques that are shared. Seeing the future, telekinesis, light saber fighting, etc. Just like most martial arts have punching and/or kicking in common. There are also unshared techniques, like shooting people with fucking lightning.

The idea that morality is somehow tied to the dark or light side is a complete fabrication. Like martial arts in the real world, each school has a philosophy that goes along with its martial techniques. While there are often ties between the two, there’s nothing stopping you from taking one without the other. While most people tend to join a school and go all in on it, you can definitely learn how to punch like a shaolin monk without believing what monks believe.

It is clear that force magic does have ties to emotions. If you want to shoot lightning you have to be angry. Using those sorts of techniques more often is probably going to lead you down a path of being a mean/bad person, but there is nothing that says it has to be that way.

Calling someone a grey jedi is simply acknowledging the false dichotomy created by the existence of two opposed religions/schools by labeling someone who is not a member of either.


#272

I think part of the issue is that “Jedi” and “Warrior-Monk” are used interchangeably when Jedi refers to a specific tradition. However the Jedi did exist for 25,000 years and was the officially endorsed tradition by the Galactic Republic.

There were a lot of other Force Traditions in the Legends era, but most of them kept to their specific Homeworlds. It’s easy to suspect the Jedi trying to keep their monopoly on the force, but it was more likely the Republic that want to confine non-Jedi force traditions to their home planets. After two or three Sith-Jedi conflicts the last thing the Republic wants is additional religious wars between empowered beings.


#273

I thought I had mentioned a few at some point, so I scrolled back up and checked - I listed a bunch of them, way up above.

As I said up there:

We know(or at least, until it gets pulled into the new canon, knew) about other force users who were not Sith, but also not Jedi, and were still good. The White Current/Fallanassi, the Potentium(who, I might add, despite being literally entirely dedicated to what the Jedi would call the “Light side”, they regarded as a sith plot because it wasn’t their teachings, something something absolutes), Aing-Tii, the Bendu(whose symbol, inverted, became the symbol of the empire), the Force Warriors(who, interestingly enough, for the basis for Chirrut Imwe and the Guardians of the Whills in Rogue One), The Grey Jedi, Grey Paladins(who used to be part of the Jedi order, until the order kicked them out for suggesting they use blasters as well as lightsabers - man, the Order were kinda dickbags), Keepers of the Breath, the Jal Shey(basically, Force Scientists), the Matukai, the list goes on.

I also wrote an incredible treatise on what truly caused the fall of The Republic:

The Republic fell because a bunch of cranky old virgins were like “Nah son entering the bone zone is shithouse and you shouldn’t do it or else.”

And I object to Scott calling the force magic, because it’s clearly made of ghosts.


#274

Necromancy is a subset of magic.


#275

The most metal variant of magic, one might even say.


#276

I think Last Jedi is ok, not great. My beef is that they spent so long (2h 35m runtime!) on things that didn’t matter and characters acting dumb.

Length: the casino mission was a complete waste of time, and it accomplished exactly zero. It felt like it took ages. And they were supposed to be hurrying to help their friends!

Dumbness (related to length):

  • Everyone thinks hyperspace tracking is impossible*. But Finn says it’s not, and this is how they do it, and here is how we shut it down. Fine. They need to get this one particular guy to help, and NOBODY ELSE can do it. Fine. Then they go waste a ton of time on Space Monte Carlo. Well, we couldn’t get the one guy in the galaxy that can help us, but there’s this weird guy in our jail cell who claims he can do it. Let’s take him. And then it turns out to not matter, because they get caught!
  • Poe is dumb for losing the bomber fleet. Especially when we find out there’s only like 100 people left in the Republic Resistance.
  • Poe is dumb for thinking the mean admiral doesn’t have a plan.
  • Wait a minute, there’s like 100 people left in the resistance! Maybe the mean admiral should actually tell her best pilot the plan**.
  • Why doesn’t the mean admiral move the cruiser between the star destroyers and the transports? She has a shield, doesn’t she?

It felt like the hyperspace tracking drama should have ended in the first act. I still enjoyed it. The Jump was phenomenal. Basically all of Kylo Ren’s scenes. Luke. The red salt.

But man, it could have been like 40 minutes shorter.

* In real time, I assumed they were either tracking Finn somehow, or he was relaying their position. Loading up an escape pod doesn’t help his case.
** Why isn’t this person just Admiral Ackbar?


#277

It isn’t Admiral Ackbar because we’re killing off the entire old guard. Han’s dead, Luke’s dead, Leia’s going to be dead because Carrie Fisher passed but I’m sure they were going to write her out too anyway. All the secondary characters who haven’t been killed, like C3-PO, R2-D2, and Chewie, are now tertiary characters who make cameos cos Star Wars.


#278

What happened to the mean admiral? She died.


#279

Wasn’t the Dreadnaught targeting the main Resistance cruiser? Had not the last bomber blew up the Dreadnaught it would have been over for Admiral Leia and her crew. Or am I misremembering?


#280

They could have escaped into hyperspace sooner had the bombers returned. At the time they didn’t know they could be tracked through hyperspace. If the dreadnought had followed them through hyperspace, who knows what the result would have been.


#281

Not just that, but I think the fact that Ackbar’s voice actor died factors in.


#282