How do you feel about Bayonetta?
2 Likes
I agree with this 1000%. It’s gotten a fair bit different since I got to a certain point in my transition, but I would give this advice to any men.
1 Like
2 Likes
Not a fan for all the reasons we discussed in this thread.
But also, unrelated, not a fan of that entire genre of third person walk around and hit things games.
1 Like
The latter is legit. I’ve never actually played it, unless you count playing as her in Smash.
But the former is an issue with how you view media in general. You’re assuming the viewer is male. Sexy ladies can be empowering just like they can be insulting. This is what trips up so many people about Bayonetta and (again) Sailor Moon. It’s fine if it makes you uncomfortable as a man, but don’t project that discomfort onto all players.
3 Likes
Don’t mischaracterize me just because I questioned your moral absolutism. It’s clear to me 2B is fetishized. Isabelle is also fetishized by part of the community. Should we not include dog characters in games because of that?
To answer your post further down the line, to what extent is objectification empowering vs. disempowering? Is Ryuko’s outfit whole cloth (heh) inexcusable because a male creator drew a sexy lady despite the fact that her design is clearly antiestablishment by mocking the fascist fashion of the academy? Would it not be problematic if a female designed and drew it? Would it not be problematic if Ryuko was a real person who chose to dress that way?
I can elaborate on my thoughts when I get home from work, but I reject your arguments based solely on your incomplete assumptions and the fact that you assume we are all following the exact same moral framework.
My apologies, I only know the plot through external sources and assumed what i wrote was set up in the opening cutscenes
1 Like
I know they can be. I know plenty of people of all genders who like these kinds of designs and draw fanart of them and all the rest. The point is that there is absolutely no doubt that that character design is objectifying. The fact that it is far from the worst offender does not make it not guilty.
It’s only objectifying if the character is an object. If she’s a well written protagonist she’s (often) empowering.
Just jumping in to say:
There is a reason I mute all anime/manga threads on this forum. Literally every time I see any image posted from that world, this entire conversation pops into my head.
How do you guys keep looking at this stuff and sharing it and talking about it and thinks it’s all just fine and not problematic?
Sheesh. Grow up and stop making excuses for Lolita imagery. It’s creepy and weird.
2 Likes
My wife and I bonded over cute robot girl figures, moe anime and playing Tanto Cuore…
Luke, just for clarity this conversation has nothing to do with loli/underage girls other than that someone described a dress as gothic lolita which was one, not really correct and two, lolita in a fashion context has nothing to do with underage anime girls.
2 Likes
Agreed. I saw enough grown women dressed in Gothic en Lolita when I was in Japan (this was over 10 years ago, idk if that’s still in vogue) that I really don’t mind it.
There is no doubt that the anime genre has too much problematic issues within it. But I’m not gonna decry hammers because they can break fingers. Genre is a tool and tools can be used for good or for ill.
1 Like
As per my last comment. I don’t think you can magically wash away the objectification of a chainmail bikini by putting some good writing next to it.
While you are correct, this proves my point exactly. A non-manga non-anime person like Luke sees this shit and is just like “you pervs trying to make excuses for your problematic shit.” They’re not playing this game to find out that the character is actually empowering or whatever. They see a tit window on a dress on the cover of the game and they NOPE the fuck out of there.
If you need to go waist deep in knowledge to see how “no, it’s actually NOT problematic this time” then it’s problematic.
1 Like
Alright, how about the scenes where Anthy is naked in Utena?
Right. Nice anime avatar you have there. I’m sure you’re just the person I need to talk to when I need Lolita imagery explained away to me.
3 Likes
Friend I’m giving you context here I’m not explaining away something, like I said it wasn’t even what we were talking about. The character in question has the appearance and intellect of a grown adult woman (she’s a robot) and obviously so.
How about the scenes with naked children in Studio Ghibli movies?
There’s nothing in common between a situation in a story where a character happens to be naked and character who has an inherently objectifying design.
1 Like