Nazis marching in America


#521

If I ever attended an anti-Nazi/white supremacist/etc. protest, I really want to fly this flag as a counter-point to all the Confederate traitor flags that are likely to be flying:

Civil_War_Flags-10

(For those not in the know, it’s the battle flag of the Civil War Massachusetts 54th Volunteer Regiment, also known as the Massachusetts 54th Colored Regiment, made famous in the movie Glory).


#522

Three Nazi shitbags were arrested for firing at protesters at UF. They were also at the Charlottesville intimidation event, according to Shaun King.

Another particularly stupid looking Nazi got punched so hard it hit the guy behind him.


#523

My relationship with the pride flag is complicated too, but the thing is, when I see one displayed publicly (or esp a trans flag), I feel there are increased odds I am… safer. Safer from stupid questions, stares, aggression, unwanted attention: The opposite of someone publicly displaying a US flag.


#524

In first grade they started the pledge of allegiance and I just had an inherent rejection of that whole thing. I just had a natural inclination against it. I’d hide under my desk. And as an adult, I think back to the fact I did that as a kid, and I’m just like, “that fucker apparently got it before I ever got it.”

I feel the same way about most “flags” and other symbols people want to band behind. Maybe they are useful tools, but tools imply purposes, and I think there’s something about putting agendas and purposes behind symbols and objects that is just wrong in some way.

To be a bit weird, but forum appropriate here, identifying yourself by a flag or a word or whatever can be fine… but it can also be turned by someone else into a “yoke”.

I’m not totally sure what else I want to say, but it just grabs me that nazi’s and otherwise are being manufactured, indoctrinated, and sent out into the world by what really amounts to cattle prodding and other incredibly basic animal momentum. Some groups may even come out on the same side as me, but I feel like an overwhelmed paranoid person that so many technically adult human beings are never second guessing themselves or thinking about second, third, seventh order consequences.


#525

The Nazi I knew has fled the country. Long story short he was at Charlottesville and couldn’t get work after being exposed as a Nazi. Now he’s moving to Thailand. I have an odd hope for the future because of this.


#526

Literally fuck him. I am glad every time I hear one of these jackasses gets fired after being spotted. I know my local antifa pages have pointed out a guy who marched there who lives near me.


#527

The article below reminded me of a political philosophical text that my parents had in their collection, and I read back in high school. It is worth a read and the Big Think article gives a quick analysis of a few portions of the texts in context of the current resurgence of intolerance.

And still, like Gandhi, Popper knew violence was sometimes unavoidable. Popper went a step further: if the intolerant persist, if they refuse to even listen to arguments put forward by opposing factions, then we must stop them by “fists or pistols.” He concludes,

We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.

Should We Tolerate the Intolerant? (Big Think Article providing a brief analysis of The Open Society and Its Enemies)

The Open Society and Its Enemies by Karl Popper, Vol. 1

The Open Society and Its Enemies by Karl Popper, Vol. 2


#528

#529

Someone on Fark posted a very nice argument about specifically why white/cis/male “pride” movements are dangerous and distinct.

You’re ignoring that we’re talking about movements and organized ideology, not singular statements.

White pride is a supremacist ideology. Black pride is not. One has been ahead for centuries, and seeks to further distance itself by advocating for how much better they are. The other is trying to pull even with the advantaged group and end systematic oppression. The ultimate goal of black pride is equality. The ultimate goal of white pride is supremacy and continued advantage over others.

Straight and male pride ideologies have are similar goals to white pride. This isn’t a difficult concept. Organized ideologies and movements make sense for those that have a historical and current gap in their societal standing. When an advantaged group creates a parallel pride movement, they are attempting to sustain and expand their already substantial advantage.


#530

Along the same lines, one of the main issues with white “pride” groups, or “white lives matter” groups or what have you is that they don’t seem to get the point of the equivalent black groups either. Well, okay, some of them (the leaders, usually) do get the point and are being racist assholes about it and others seem to be just not paying attention as to what these groups really are about. I’m not going to say which percentage is racist vs. clueless as I’m not sure that can be determined.

Too many people (I’m giving them the “clueless” benefit of the doubt here for the sake of discussion – racist assholes don’t need any thing more said about them) don’t seem to get that “Black Lives Matter” isn’t about saying that black lives matter more than other lives, it’s saying that “we’re tired of innocent/non-violent black people being killed by cops who then get away with it.” I once saw an argument that a better name for the movement would be something like “Black Lives Matter Too,” as that would possibly blunt any so-called reverse racism accusations against the movement, but that ship has already sailed.

Another interesting note with respect to “pride” movements is that there are already more benign “pride” movements that white people can belong to. I mean throughout the country you’ll find Italian pride groups, Irish pride groups, German pride groups, etc., where people can celebrate and be proud of their respective ethnicities in benign ways (food festivals, parades, block parties, etc.). Black people, by and large, don’t have that luxury due to slavery. You don’t see any “Zulu pride” groups or “Igbo pride” groups (to name a couple of African ethnic groups) or anything else like that because most African Americans can’t trace their ancestries back to Africa the way most white people can. The only “ethnicity” they really have is “Black,” AKA “African American,” and that’s all they can really celebrate.

Nowadays, even with DNA testing being able to determine which part of Africa someone’s ancestors may come from (LeVar Burton, for example, was able to trace his to modern day Nigeria), slavery has so culturally divorced them from their ancestors that, again, it’s not like the direct ties a lot of white people have to their ancestral homelands and cultures.


#531

So I’m almost done with a biography of Huey Long, probably the most detailed and extensive biography I’ve read of any person, and I keep remembering I said this and it’s bugging me how wrong I was. Historians like to charge that his Share Our Wealth program would have nationalized the economy, which is true to a degree, but it’s a huge leap from that statement to the idea that he would have created a fascist state like Germany or Italy. The political mechanics of the machine he set up in Louisiana are nothing like the political mechanics installed by Mussolini and Hitler. Namely, it was designed to outlive Huey Long. Long was severely corrupt and created an unstoppable political machine to keep his men in power, but it never made significant changes to the State Constitution that dictated the rules of the democracy. Normalcy was restored in Louisiana a number of years after Long’s assassination and I think had he been elected President we can project that a similar result would have occurred. Furthermore, Long would never have aligned himself with the Axis powers. He was dedicated to immigrants and sympathetic to blacks, being one of the first Southern politicians of the 20th century to do so.

What Huey Long does prove is that in the depths of the Great Depression America was ripe for a charismatic leader who used questionable means to get to an end that benefited them, which could’ve been someone genuinely dictatorial instead of moderately tyrannical. Had a demagogue aligned with the fascist streak building in the moneyed parts of America risen instead, we could have easily seen a transformation into a fascist state.


#532

As it turns out the fucking shitstain that murdered 17 children in a school in Florida yesterday was a MAGA-hat wearing white supremacist, who trained with a militia cell whose goal is to turn Florida into a white ethno-state. Another Neo-Nazi on a murder spree.

Meanwhile Infowars desperately tried to smear this as an Islamist attack.


#533

All the charges got dropped against the people that took down the statue here in Durham NC last fall.

Based on what a friend that was at the court house said it was basically ruled that there was insufficient evidence because most of the video / picture footage wasn’t admissible. I suspect that was actually just to avoid having to rule on anything else but not a bad outcome.


#534

I still say that even if they were found guilty, the only appropriate penalty was community service in the form of cleaning up any mess left behind from taking down the statue.

That said, I’m glad the charges were dropped.


#535

I just realized the only person I know who joined the Stormcloak Rebellion in Skyrim turned into a Nazi and it’s really impacting how I think about that game.


#536

I was a Stormcloak in my first play through and I am super anti-Nazi.


#537

I also went Stormcloak my first (and only, and incomplete) playthrough. I was also playing a Nord, and the Empire seemed to be doing some super shitty things and also tried to kill my character several times for contrived reasons.


#538

Yeah, I immediately assumed that the Imperials were the fascists and the Stormcloaks were the good guy rebels.

I now realize that the Stormcloaks are racist, so…Yeah.


#539

Having played as a Dark Elf in Morrowind & Oblivion I was a bit more sensitive to the whole race in the Elder Scrolls games than someone who didn’t. I first thought that the Imperials were being a bit fascist but when I got to talk to the stormcloaks it was rapidly apparently that they were crazy racists. Then again I’m the type of guy who talks to everyone and explores a bit before making a decision.

I feel like in the ES games they like to make sure that any dichotomies they have in the game are not so black and white.


#540

Both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks were pretty awful.