Yeah, definitely. It was kinda lampshaded by the fact that when harly walks into the bar mitzvah, she doesn’t know it’s a bar mitzvah and she does a red carpet entrance, and it’s a bit inappropriate for the setting. It’s played for laughs at harly’s expense and it kinda distracted me from what was actually being revealed.
We just finished up Stranger Things season 3 and I’m still mulling it over.
I think this was, overall, better than season 2. I think the key for me is that 3 sorta revisited the central speculation in season 1 - that is, “what would it be like if your childhood fantasizing was real?” In the case of 3, the plot that was setup was so ridiculous it was essentially a caricature - but it also situated itself back in the realm of adolescent fantasy come to life.
I think ultimately that’s what I disliked about season 2 - rather than pose the question afresh, it took season 1 and set about stupidly answering questions it raised.
It’s still nowhere near as good as season 1, though, and it became clear after the first episode of 3 that they intend to continue on as they are. It’s unfortunate, because I enjoyed the more cerebral exploration of the unknown that raised more questions than it answered in season 1 - but I’ve adjusted my expectations and can enjoy the fun fluff that is the current iteration.
However, what I’m mulling over now are the problematic relationships depicted in the show, and I’m not totally sure what the writers are doing with them or where they’re taking it. There are several instances of women (and a girl) doing emotional labor for men (and a boy), and it’s sort of depicted as normal and good. There’s a lot of validation of that relationship structure.
However, this season also does a lot to develop the women and girls as their own characters independent of the men and boys. It’s almost a mixed message - girls having value without boys in their lives, and then turning around and doing labor for them. I mean yes that’s many a woman’s lived experience, but the question I ask is what the writers are trying to do with it. I could see using that as a vehicle to introduce more emotional development in your dudes, but they’re not really doing enough of that to make up for the problematic depictions, IMO.
Hopper, in particular, was wildly problematic and toxic this season. But he has a soliloquy at the end that shows development and emotional growth - but it’s in a moment to himself.
Again, I don’t know if the point is that I’m supposed to be frustrated that these characters aren’t being better, but if it is they’re doing a mediocre job of making that point. I see it, but it’s muddy.
I’ll probably still watch season 4, but it’s no longer “must watch this now” and definitely more “I’ll watch it when I get to it.”
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I guess 2019 isn’t the year I get into cape shit.
HBO’s Watchmen is supposed to be good, I dunno.
I heard the same thing, but as much as I love the original Watchmen comic, I’m highly skeptical of any other Watchmen things. I haven’t read or watched anything other than the real deal.
I’m gonna watch it, I’m just waiting till it’s all out so I can binge it. It’s a spiritual successor, not an adaptation.
I could be wrong, but I believe people on the Internet were saying that it is now all out.
You’re right, last episode aired last night. I’ll watch it while I’m in The City.
I haven’t watched Watchmen yet, but I have almost absolute faith in Damon Lindelof, the creator of The Leftovers, one of the best TV shows in the past 5-10 years.
" The first season received mostly positive reviews, though some criticized the series for its grim tone.[8] The series underwent a critical reevaluation during its acclaimed second and third seasons,[9][10] with many critics referring to The Leftovers as one of the greatest television series of all time,[11][12][13][14][15] with particular praise for its writing, directing, acting and thematic depth.[8][9][10] The musical score composed by Max Richter also attracted critical praise.[16] Despite receiving average ratings throughout its run, the series has developed a cult following."
" Season one of The Leftovers received mostly positive reviews from critics. Metacritic scored season one 65 out of 100, based on 42 critics, indicating “generally favorable reviews”.[50] Rotten Tomatoes scored the season 82%, based on 67 reviews, with an average rating of 7.67/10. The site’s critical consensus reads, “Its dour tone and self-seriousness may make for somber viewing, but The Leftovers is an artfully crafted, thought-provoking drama that aims high and often hits its mark.”[8] IGN reviewer Matt Fowler gave consistently high scores to all the season one episodes, including two perfect 10 scores for “Two Boats and a Helicopter” and the season finale “The Prodigal Son Returns.”[51] He then gave the entire first season a review score of 9.4 out of 10, particularly praising the character-centric episodes, Max Richter’s score and the performances, particularly Carrie Coon’s.[52]
Season two received critical acclaim. On Metacritic, it has a score of 80 out of 100 based on 22 reviews, indicating “generally favorable reviews”.[53] Rotten Tomatoes gave the second season a rating of 94% with an average score of 8.81 out of 10 based on 40 critic reviews, with the critical consensus " The Leftovers continues to be unpredictable and provocative in season two with its new location, though the inexplicable circumstances will still frustrate many viewers."[9] Alan Sepinwall of HitFix gave it an “A” grade and wrote that "The Leftovers is still TV’s best drama as season 2 begins"; it has “tighter focus, but same powerful, immersive experience”.[54] In her five out of five star review, Emily VanDerWerff of Vox wrote: “It’s a show that wants to provoke a reaction in you, whether it’s admiration, hatred, or just bafflement. It’s HBO’s best drama—and thus must-see TV.”[55]
The third season has received unanimous acclaim from critics. On Metacritic, it has a score of 98 out of 100 based on 17 reviews, indicating “universal acclaim”.[56] On Rotten Tomatoes, it has a 99% rating with an average score of 9.36 out of 10 based on 46 reviews with the critical consensus “With reliably ambitious storytelling and outstanding performances from its cast, Season 3 of The Leftovers approaches the series’ conclusion as thoughtfully, purposefully, and confidently as it began.”[10] Maureen Ryan of Variety wrote the final season “is spectacular, in every sense of that word.”[57] The Leftovers was ranked as the best TV series of 2017 according to Metacritic.[58] Alan Sepinwall placed season three first on his list of the best TV shows of 2017, an accolade he had awarded to both previous seasons in their respective years. He said “this has been my show of the year — of the decade, maybe, depending on how we count things like Mad Men and Breaking Bad that debuted in the '00s” and went on to say “the eight-episode final season was a miracle”.[59]"
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Spoilers: it’s good.
(haven’t seen the finale though) also the way you know it’s most likely to be good. They only planned one season and as of yet there is no plan for a second season.
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I primarily hated Season 3 because they made Hopper so unlikeable to the point where I didn’t really care where he ended up. Just because they try to do stuff with him at the end; that doesn’t really cut down the wild toxic, pigheaded, moronic shit he did from this sudden injection of maddening ego. It was also even more 80s nostalgia bait this time; so far to the point where Lucas points out how delicious New Coke is to one of his buddies.
I’ve similarly lowered in priority for you, but it’s still scratches the itch for like PG horror-ish elements
Maybe 2020 will be your year.
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What did you like about it? I tried to watch it, and got about an episode and a half. I was getting pretty strong Lost vibes, and not willing to wait around for the “good parts” (season 3?)
Admittedly, my anti-Lostmetheus bias is really strong. So the Lindster has a steep hill to climb in my book.
So, some context first…
I really enjoyed maybe the first 2-3 seasons of Lost before I started to get bored with the show. The focus turned from what I was really interested in, the Dharma Initiative, to some crazy pseudo-religious Cain and Abel story. I was tired of all the needless flashbacks and the contrived ways in which the characters connected with each other before they got on the island.
I’m starting with all this so you know that I’m not a Lost fan and I went into The Leftovers pretty skeptical.
I’m going to push back against the idea that the “good parts” of the Leftovers wasn’t until season 3. I enjoyed all three seasons of the show. Like most shows, The Leftovers started out a little flat, but really picked up. Saying that the “good parts” are only in season 3 is doing a disservice to seasons 1 and 2. Season 1 was the show finding itself, finding its identity and figuring out not only what stories it wanted to tell, but how to tell them. By the end of season 1, the show had found its feet and season 2 was just as excellent as season 3. Season 1 is by no means bad.
The Leftovers is a completely different type of show than Lost. On the surface, they might resemble each other, because in both shows, something incredible happens. But in Lost, the incredible thing happens to the main characters. Their plane crashes and they’re left stranded on this mysterious island. There’s the smoke monster and the Dharma Initiative and all kinds of weird things going on. In The Leftovers, the incredible thing happens and the main characters are the ones literally left behind. The incredible thing doesn’t happen to them, they have to live in the world after it’s over.
Lost was about the exploration of the unknown. The Leftovers was about how you go on living once the unknown happens. The Leftovers is an examination of what happens to people, on an individual level, a family level, and a societal level, when 2% of the world’s population suddenly disappears. How do you deal with that? How does government deal with that? How does religion and society deal with that? That’s what The Leftovers focuses on, not some smoke monster or some random hatch in the ground. Sure, some weird and crazy shit happens, but the crazy shit isn’t the point.
In Lost, everyone wanted to know the answers to the mysteries. As the show progressed, and new mysteries were added and old ones either weren’t answered or weren’t answered in a way that people liked, viewers (myself included) became frustrated. The Leftovers isn’t concerned with trying to answer the central mystery of the show. The characters aren’t really concerned with trying to answer the central mystery of the show. As a viewer, I honestly didn’t care why 2% of the world’s population disappeared. I didn’t need that question answered. That’s not the focus of the show. The “mystery” is not the point.
The Leftovers is interesting because just enough people disappeared for it to impact everyone, but not enough people disappeared that society collapsed and everything is some dystopian nightmare. The Leftovers is not The Walking Dead. 2% of the world’s population have disappeared and people need to deal with that, but they also have to go back to their lives. Some people can do that. Others can’t. The Leftovers tells those stories. It isn’t focused on why the people disappeared, or why some people were left behind, it focuses on what happens after.
How does a mother deal with her husband and two children disappearing? How does she deal with her grief? How does she put her life back together and go on living? Can she even do that? How does a minister deal with 2% of the population disappearing, seemingly randomly, not based on who they were or the kinds of lives they lived? What does that do to his faith? How does that change his relationship to god and to his congregation? Those are the kinds of stories that The Leftovers tells. Yes, there’s some weird shit going on, but the show is incredibly grounded.
As a side note, I’ll also point out that Lost was on TV when most shows had to have 22-26 episodes per season. That’s a lot of time for filler. By contrast, the first two seasons of The Leftovers had 10 episodes each, and the third season only had 8 episodes.
Finally, here’s a link to an article that I just found after I wrote all of the above. I guess I should have just searched Google first. It does a pretty good job of explaining the differences maybe better than I have. Here’s the money quote though:
“And so, viewed from the right angle, The Leftovers is an inversion of Lost . Lost is the story of people who disappeared; The Leftovers is the story of people the people who were left behind. Mostly set on the island, Lost is rich with mysteries of this new, unusual place. The Leftovers , particularly in its first and second seasons, is set in cities in which characters struggle to find meaning.”
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Thanks for the detailed explanation.
This is my preference, but what we do is figure out what the fuck just happened. I’m pretty uninterested in “local cop dealing with teenage daughter” if you set the initial stakes at supernatural apocalypse. Go directly for the most important/interesting thing!
I think I watched the right amount of show for me ~_^
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The Leftovers might not be for everyone.
That being said, the only reason I brought it up in the first place was in the context of Watchmen. If you didn’t like Lost, and you’re hesitant about Watchmen, I think that The Leftovers proves that Lindelof can make a good show.
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So I saw the first ep of Harley and Ivy.
It’s like someone gave BTAS to a group pretending to be the group responsible for the Venture Bros. I liked Harley and Ivy’s interactions, but there were just some jokes that fell flat and missed in a bad way.
Yes. I did see the posts on the Antisemitic Humor, above. Yikes
Third ep was better. I still like the show. The Anita Sarkeesian quote about enjoying things while being critical of their more problematic or pernicious aspects comes to mind. It’s still fun and funny and I find the way the characters interact to be relatable. Yeah it did a massive anti semitism and also a less massive but still trash toxic masculinity. And those suck.
I still enjoy it while I’m critical of it.
Probably gonna binge the first 2-4 epidosdes tonight.
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Wait that came out??? and I’m off work. I might have to miss this memorial service haha.
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