What movie have you seen recently?


#641

Agreed. If I remember correctly, Poe was one of the senior officers, or at least senior surviving officers, and I can’t think of any sane reason why Leah or Holdo would’ve kept the “run to the old, abandoned rebel base” plan secret from him. A lot of the bad stuff that went down could’ve been avoided if there was simply better communication among the senior officers.

Holdo may have been a war hero and may have come up with a good plan, but this particular engagement was not one of her better days.


#642

Ah, I missed that part where Poe is explaining everything to Finn and Rose and the Hacker guy overhears. Just one more example of how if Poe wasn’t an idiot, fewer people would have died and the Rebellion would have been better off.

I get how this movie was about Poe learning the hard way that action isn’t always the best solution and that there’s a difference between being a hero and a leader, but the way they portrayed it was terrible. I agree that his story required some degree of tension, but he literally tried to start a military coup to take over the Rebellion. The fact that Leia just kind of forgets that and ignores that is bad writing.

I have no problem with the movie getting rid of Snoke, that scene in his throne room chamber was one of the best in the whole movie, and I loved the homage to Return of the Jedi, where Luke is trying to redeem Vader, and I agree that I love Kylo being in charge now, I just wish I knew a bit more about Snoke. With Disney in charge of Star Wars now, I don’t think we’ll have as robust an extended universe as we did before, which is both a good and bad thing.

Finally, as much as a lot of fans and even the directors seem to want to get rid of Star Wars’s focus on the Skywalkers, and their various families and lineages, from a corporate stand point, I just don’t see how Disney would get rid of the Skywalkers entirely going forward. For better or worse, the Skywalkers are pretty much synonymous with Star Wars.


#643

I call this concept “moron ex machina,” where the movie or TV show or book has characters act like morons to advance the plot in a specific direction.


#644

Not quite - he wasn’t anymore. He was demoted by Leia, meaning he’s no longer a senior officer. And it was literally punishment for him taking plans he was privy to as a senior officer and then not only modifying them without authorization because he didn’t like them, but refusing to follow orders when told to stop or follow the original plan - it would be absurd to punish him like that and then just let him in on those details as if it never happened. And there was also the problem that he was pretty openly organizing a mutiny which might provide some disincentive to sharing plans with him.

It’s a war. Nobody’s having a good day.


#645

At the beginning of The Last Jedi, Poe was a Commander. After he inadvertently got the entire Rebellion bomber fleet destroyed, Leia demoted him to Captain. I have no idea if that would entitle him to Leia’s and Holdo’s plans or not.

But here’s the thing… The Rebels are trapped on a troop carrier running away from the First Order. Why not just tell EVERYONE the plans? It’s not like they’re going to broadcast it to the First Order, at no time is Leia or anyone else worried about spies.

There is no logical reason why Leia and Holdo just wouldn’t tell the entire ship what the plan was.


#646

They were literally worried about spies. At the time, Holdo and Leia were acting like there was a mole, and playing cards close to the vest. Rose’s job before Finn katamari’ed her up was to stop anyone grabbing an escape pod, because they were concerned about moles and deserters. Remember, they didn’t know at that point if they were truly being tracked through hyperspace - something they thought impossible - or if they had a mole or a tracker on board.

The only people that really knew about it were Rose, Finn and Poe(because Rose told them) - they didn’t tell anyone in a command position, because they thought they’d get told no. Poe deliberately withholds the information about the tracker from the command structure, indicating the command have no idea how they’re being tracked, which gives them every reason to worry about moles and spies.

Sure, it didn’t turn into a spy-hunting plot, because the film is focused on Rey, Finn, Poe and Rose, rather than everything Rebel command is doing.

It would not. They bumped him back to being a Junior Officer(Or a Company Officer, as some call it), which would not make him privy to the details of whole-fleet level plans, unless they directly concerned him, assuming that the Rebel military command structure works pretty much the same as real-world military command structures, as has been generally depicted.


#647

That may be true, but if you know you have a hot-head guy who likes to go off on his own, especially when he’s frustrated, and he’s clearly frustrated, you tell him the goddamn plan.


#648

Either that, or you confine him to quarters so he can’t go about causing trouble until if/when you need him to actually cause trouble.

It also doesn’t help that the entire crew looked to be scared shitless over what’s going on, not sure if Holdo knew what she was doing, etc. It wasn’t just Poe, Finn, and Rose. At the very least, a bit of reassurance that, “Trust me, this looks bad, but I have a plan to get us somewhere safe and this is part of the plan” probably would’ve been beneficial.


#649

Take a step back from the actual story and ask yourself what the goals of the directing/writing/storyboarding/whatever staff were to set up that entire movie. I feel pretty weird about it in that context. I guess it’s still possible that the third movie in this set redeems it, but I feel like what we’re actually being sold is Disney trying to wrangle a property into an “easier” money maker and not quite understanding what they’re dealing with. It would take a lot to really research and lay out how I get to that point, so all I can say is that’s my intuition. Probably made worse by conflicts between corporate, directing, and existing canon… even as near as the previous movie.


#650

To the guy who is literally being punished for refusing to follow the plan and doing his own thing, getting other people killed in the process?


#651

Not necessarily. But to the entire crew. Poe was a jerk in how he reacted to it, but the whole crew was on edge and worried and Holdo just stood there and said nothing at all.

Tell the crew what’s up, or at least just enough of them to reassure them that Holdo knows what she’s doing without putting the operation at risk. Then confine Poe to quarters and post a guard so that he doesn’t do anything until he cools his hot head down and is considered “stable” enough to return to duty.

To be fair, I’d be okay with throwing him in the brig instead of just confining him to quarters for his insubordination, but I’m feeling a bit merciful.


#652

Right. If you’re worried about spies, you don’t have to tell everyone what the plan is, but it might help morale if you tell your subordinates that you at least have a plan and that it’s working.


#653

He was demoted one rank, but it’s not like they had a lot of Starfighter Pilot left after Kylo nuked the hanger bay.

The thing is Holdo kept telling Poe to stay at his post. He didn’t have a post anymore, as a senior pilot he should have been partly responsible for partially organizing the shuttle operation. You can’t keep secret “Get all of the shuttles fueled and ready to fly, ASAP.” from the Lead Starfighter Pilot not if he does his job remotely competently. It should not have been this shocking revelation that should have had Poe got “Whelp, Mutiny!”.


#654

I really find it odd to go these lengths on going back and forth on something so irrelevant. The movie has sufficient excuses for things for a children’s movie, and shouldn’t that be enough.Going at this detail level next there will be two months talking about the weaponized hyperdrive jump. Or maybe questioning why Rey learned Jedi tricks so fast.


#655

At some point we might start questioning the merit of Midichlorean theory and whether the Jedi invented it whole cloth, or if it’s just, you know, heroin.


#656

I wouldn’t say it’s irrelevant. Poe being a complete dumbass is the primary driver for the entire movie.

Why did Finn and Rose go to the casino planet? Poe.

Why were the Rebel’s stealth troop transports discovered? Poe.

Why did Luke Skywalker have to cause a distraction so the remnants of the Rebels could escape, possibly causing his own death? Poe.

All movies have plot holes and faulty logic, but just to compare two Disney properties, Star Wars and Marvel, the quality of writing and storytelling going on in the Marvel Cinematic Universe seems orders of magnitude better than what’s going on in the Star Wars movies. These are both hugely important properties, and both probably have all kinds of corporate oversight. But you’d think that Disney would be capable of the same relative level of quality for both of them.


#657

A Wrinkle in Time

Having just read the book and been underwhelmed (the book isn’t written for a 38 year old man, so I don’t hold anything against it), I had super low expectations for the movie.

And those expectations weren’t met, not even close, not even slightly. The movie is utter garbage from start to finish.

Actually not from the very start, because in the opening scene, the father shows his daughter a physics demonstration, the look of wonder on her face was quite delightful. Unfortunately nothing in the rest of the movie elicits the same sense of wonder in me, the viewer, nor in the eyes of the actors on screen.

For a story that is about time and space, the pacing was way off, and there is no sense of location or geography. Basic things like establishing shots are left out, so there’s no way to know where people are or what they are looking at or where they are going.

Juliane once said “don’t they know what editing is?” and I laughed because I had been thinking the same thing.

We started fastforwarding and skipping to the end of chapters on the DVD. Like as soon as Zach Galifianakis turned up? Skip!

Incompetent filmmaking with an already difficult story is not a good combination.


#658

The Fast and the Furious

We watched this as a palette cleanser after A Wrinkle in Time. As opposed to that film, this movie has an incredible sense of time and space. We are told these street races take just 10 seconds, even though it takes them about two minutes each to play out on screen, and it all works because the rules of the movie are set out beforehand so clearly, we can just relax and go with it.

For example, at one point a helicopter shot shows the cranes and the movie lighting gear. But this is the establishing shot, and showing how long the race is going to be is more important than worrying about being able to see the lighting towers.

The CGI is super stylised, but it doesn’t matter that it isn’t realistic, because it is only used to establish where people are in relation to other people.

The acting and story and all that is just whatever, but it’s obviously enough because we are here for the action, and we can only care about the action if we care about the people, and we did.

I have a feeling this is going to lead to a Fast and Furious marathon over Christmas.


#659

The end of 7 is really touching and poignant.

I’m not crying you’re crying.


#660

It takes until the fifth one for them to actually make a good movie. 6 tries to recapture the lightning in a bottle of 5 but… eh. Didn’t bother with 7 or 8.