The Speed running community has their owns values and shibboleths (as I’m sure you know). Nintendo absolutely made the correct decision for the port for their core audience (normal gamers, nintendo fans, kids, people feeling nostalgic) and it just happens the best choice for the majority audience is contra to what would be best for the speed running community’s values. That article you shared is just hilarious for the outrage and tunnel vision to think they are the core demographic nintendo should service.
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A Nintendo Switch and a game that costs $60 and won’t be available for sale anymore after March 31, 2021 is not very accessible.
A free illegally downloaded Mario 64 ROM, an emulator, and a normal PC to which absolutely any input device can be connected is much more accessible.
Without emulators and ROMs, speed running would barely even be a thing because almost nobody could play. It would be more like Ice Hockey were only the few who have access to large amounts of equipment and infrastructure even have a chance to try it out.
Also, without emulators and ROMs there would basically be no TAS and no ability to inspect the internal workings of various games. The majority of tricks people use to beat games quickly would still be undiscovered.
Despite being mostly an individual competition, speed running is a team effort. The competition is entirely about execution. When someone discovers a new trick, they don’t use it to snatch the world record away from everyone else. They share it, and whoever executes best/first gets it. That collaboration works best when people are in alignment, playing the same version of the game on the same platform.
This version is the same as the DS version and the same as every version sold by Nintendo after the first patch. If Nintendo release Mario 64 in the future, it’ll be this version again.
It’s not identical enough for speedrunning purposes. The DS game and the 3D All-Stars one are going to be put into separate categories. If they re-release the same game again for the next Nintendo console, it will also be put in a different category.
EDIT: I looked it up. Speedrunners don’t even consider these to be the same game, let alone separate categories.
That’s cool. It’ll allow new people to set and break records in new categories.
Almost every sport is exited about new venues. New race tracks, where a new team or driver can win and set new records. New courses for marathons and other running races. It’s even exciting to see tennis being played in the new roofed stadium at the wrong time of year in the French Open.
Keep playing the original version of Mario 64, but instead of moaning about it, embrace the “new” version and see what can be done with it.
If speedrunners want support from Nintendo, how about they ask for more skippable cut scenes in their games? Or in-game tools for timing runs? Anything like this, that would encourage new speedrunners, would require new categories anyway.
Nintendo specifically has almost never done anything to positively engage a gaming enthusiast community. Almost all, if not actually all, actions they have taken that even recognize the existence of gaming enthusiast communities of any kind have been hostile.
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No point even moaning about it then.
The DS version of Super Mario 64 is an “enhanced remake”—the player starts as Yoshi, there are multiple characters to unlock, different powerups for each character, and more total stars to collect.
Ah, I was going by the information in the article.
“ Due to the numerous fixes included, the Shindou Edition naturally became Nintendo’s go-to Super Mario 64 port. It’s what they’ve used for previous ports like the 2004 Nintendo DS release, 2006 Wii Virtual Console version, and the 2015 Wii U Virtual Console re-release. ”
In game timing tools are always great, so I’m sure most speedrunning communities are overjoyed at the idea of that stuff being baked in whenever possible. So adding that to a game on re-release is probably a good idea. Outside of including that and, maybe, replays, I get the feeling there is a certain resistance to the idea of adding skippable cutscenes or other gameplay perks that would cater towards speedrunning when a game is re-released.
If the game is meant to have skippable cutscenes anyway, great. It’s not that uncommon. If a developer were going back and adding that feature just for speedrunning, then that seems not to be in the spirit of things. Then as you were saying it would make those runs a completely separate thing. If a remake was identical but ONLY added in-game timers, relying on those timers also makes it completely different because internal clocks will almost always reflect theoretical game time and not real-time.
So what would help with accessibility is if games included timers that would be very consistent between different configurations and hardwares. Otherwise, all this new tech is going to become more of a problem with speedrunning and ultimately may actually increase the accessibility burden. Mostly because when a player is nearing the very top of the pack, things like individual framecounts matter. Playing in specific ways that tricks the game into not running so slowly on set hardware matters. If getting through a specific level without lag causing slowdown that kills a run means having an expensive graphics card, or having the latest edition of console and not one of the first gen editions without the awesome harddrive, then it means some players with better versions of hardware will always have advantage. When a game runs on an in-game timer it might help even some of that out by having the timer run fast or slow along with the game so that whether you’re running at a choppy 20 fps or rendering everything smooth in 120 fps on a monster rig, everything times correctly.
But I also don’t think it’s (for now) all that big of a burden to expect serious runners to invest in the old hardware. An old console while not free can usually be found for reasonable price. And anyone serious will find that they have to invest in that gear in order to compete at high level. Buying an N64, having someone refurb your controller (or doing it yourself) and then getting a cartridge, is probably less than the cost of a serious modern-day gaming rig. In fact for many, the cost of a decent streaming setup will be more than their retro gaming console.
I actually meant asking for skippable cut scenes in new games, not adding them to old ones. And the timers are more for individual levels or sections, like the track timers in Mario Cart, rather than something that runs independently of hardware.
The rest of what you say, I already get the issues and agree with you.
However, if the issue is “how to make something more accessible” then you can’t use experts or high level participants your go-to example.
For hardcore or high level speedrunning, of course you can expect people to invest in specialist equipment, spend lots on streaming rigs, etc.
For new speedrunners, a one-button timer built in to the game or the console, in the same way that screenshots are built into new games or consoles, would be super handy.
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Vote to change the thread name, because I want speedruns to watch. Not debates on what a speedrun is.
Just watched this Donkey Kong Country race from this year’s AGDQ, and wanted to highlight it here simply because the runners are in almost perfect sync for almost the entire game.
Haven’t watched this, but uh, what.
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There is a new way to play in BotW (skipping to the start of the run)
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Wow. 2 frame rules off the TAS? Insane.
KPop Girl Group Any% World Record
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