While he didn’t serve time in prison, Spiro Agnew, Nixon’s first Vice President, pled guilty to felony tax evasion and resigned from his position.
Also, while not world leaders, 11 governors have been convicted of federal corruption offenses while in office.
This is great and I hope it means I’m wrong.
I don’t think it does. World leaders are much higher than governors.
Had Spiro Agnew been someone other than the VP, he’d be in prison for felony tax evasion. Shit like resigning or having a congressional censure or some other not real punishment is all on the table.
Prison though, I just don’t see it being in the cards for a president. At that point they’re… say de facto above the law.
Which is what’s scary. It’s never been a problem since all of the former presidents have been content to go back to their normal lives. Trump hasn’t stopped doing shady (at best) shit and I doubt he’s gonna want to stop when he’s out (hopefully next year).
Having a Dictator in Rome wasn’t a problem until Julius Caesar decided he didn’t want to stop being Dictator.
If a Democrat wins the presidency in 2020, and Trump doesn’t get Pence to pardon him before that, I fully expect the Attorney General to go after Trump.
But even if the AG doesn’t go after him, I also think that State Attorneys General, specifically at least in NY and CA, will go after Trump on state charges.
Kinda hoping that’s like a… metaphor. If so, then sure.
If we’re talking about the man though, the one from history… No. Cesar was granted the title of dictator for 10 years and then in perpetuity, (the second one led to his assassination) but it’s important to note that the senate still existed the whole time. They could overrule him (they never did but, we’re talking about 4 years total, (of relative peace no less) not a ton happened where they’d have wanted to)
The senate kicked around for like another 80 years until the second triumvirate made them into a ceremonial role formally kicking off the roman empire. Damnit, now I’m back on roman history.
That may or may not happen and fine. Assume all of the above occurs. None of it means prison.
There’s never a guarantee of prison. That’s the nature of our plea bargain system. But the fact that both Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort are serving time makes me confident that Trump will end up serving some amount of time in prison.
I highly doubt that the future AG will go after Trump, instead the Democrats will focus on trying to pass anti-corruption laws and codifying things that we took for granted before. Getting into a fight with the former president will hurt forward progress on these issues. If Trump loses and vacates, most people will want to work on ensuring someone like him can’t operate the way he did instead of trying to hit him for it.
Even if you’re right, there’s nothing to stop a state AG from going after Trump.
There’s plenty to stop a state AG from going after trump. There’s nothing official to stop a state AG from going after him. But like something like a phone call from the DNC to the elected governor that appoints the AG is the kind of thing I’m talking about that may temper a state AG
Sure, and a meteor can hit the planet tomorrow so it could all be a moot point anyway.
Just because something could happen doesn’t mean it will happen.
Additionally, 43 out of 50 state Attorneys General are elected, not appointed, so the governor has no power over that. Additionally, most AGs are independent, further lessening the power their governors have over them.
Sure, theoretically, the DNC could call up the NYS AG and say they don’t want her/him to prosecute Trump, but at least in NY, going after Trump would make the AG more popular, not less, so the DNC’s leverage would also be minimal.
Edited to add:
I’m just trying to imagine a hypothetical conversation between Tom Perez, the head of the DNC and Letitia James, the current NYS AG:
Perez: “Letitia, the DNC would really prefer it if you wouldn’t bring charges against Trump (for whatever unknown reasons).”
James: “No thanks, the people of NY demand justice for Trump’s crimes.”
Perez: “If you try to prosecute him, the DNC will not support your re-election bid and we will try to heavily primary you.”
James: finally replying to the call after getting up off the floor after laughing uncontrollably… “If I prosecute Trump, I’m going to be the most popular politician in the entire country, let alone New York. You can try to primary me as much as you want. Go ahead. I’ll just laugh my way to re-election or the Governor’s Mansion.”
Look dude, I’m not gonna fight this. You’re talking like I used to except the subject of my certainty was that trump wouldn’t be elected, or wouldn’t be able to institute a muslim ban, or wouldn’t be able to build a wall, or whatever else I was so certain of. (though I guess, believe it or not that last one is actually true, so maybe there’s hope for you yet)
I’m not trying to be overly combative or argumentative about this, but you’re comparing apples to oranges.
Trump got elected because of multiple fluke occurrences (Comey’s letter, Russian interference, Hillary Clinton’s unpopularity), none of which are applicable here. All those other things you mention are the result of a Congress and a Supreme Court that wouldn’t stop Trump. Again, apples to oranges.
New York State is entirely Democratically controlled. There is a Democratic Governor. There is a Democratic AG. The Legislature is controlled by the Democrats. The Senate is controlled by the Democrats. The New York State Court of Appeals is filled with mostly Democratic nominated judges.
I get the whole doom and gloom thing, but New York State is not the Federal Government.
Maybe it really is different this time.
And yet. I don’t have the confidence that when it comes down to it that NYS will do anything because this state plays a fairly central role to the corruption of money in politics. Home to the vampire squid.
I’ve yet to see anything from the state government that shows enough spine to actually be “uncivil” enough to try and throw a president in jail.
They’re not trying to throw a president in jail. They’re trying to throw a private citizen in jail.
You should read about when Elliot Spitzer was Attorney General. Say what you will about his time as governor, but when he was AG, Spitzer was kicking ass and taking names on Wall Street and on White Collar criminals.
Also, read about Letitia James, the current NYS AG. I can’t be completely sure, but I doubt she would bow to political pressure and not prosecute Trump.
The Corey Lewandowski testimony was pretty crazy today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=148&v=7DCGy0k2B5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=149&v=zmMFRLcZH_k
"Lewandowski’s response was stunning: “I have no obligation to be honest to the media. Because they’re just as dishonest as anybody else.” Berke sought to clarify: “So you’re admitting, sir, you were not being truthful?” Lewandowski replied, now in full Dada: “My interview with Ari Melber … can be interpreted any way you like…
The main thrust of Berke’s very effective questioning was to demonstrate that Lewandowski, contrary to his testimony, knew that what Trump had asked him to do was wrong—and possibly criminal—which is why he concealed it from the public. But we should also pause, please, to just let the other key takeaway soak in: Lewandowski, on the same day he rolls out a Senate run, says in a nationally televised hearing that he has no duty to be truthful “with the media.” Someone who has been a paid contributor for CNN, then One America News Network, and who has appeared on Fox News and the Sunday talk shows seems to make a distinction between lying “to the media” and lying to the unsuspecting American public that consumes the media."
I live in NH, and if he runs for senate it is going to be a trumpy shitshow, but I’m pretty sure he can’t beat Shaheen.
After his testimony, I would be shocked if he wins. All his opponent has to do is take clips from his testimony and air those as campaign ads about how Lewandowski lies all the time unless he’s specifically under oath.
Stick a fork in him, he’s done.
One can only hope.
Not that Shaheen is great, but she’s at least bad in standard centrist politician ways, and not nuts.