Ok, not literally “nobody,” but I see so much of that. Like the 2B thing. OK its a sexy dress made to appeal to men but so many people like @apreche see it as a personal and moral failing to like it, something inherently wrong with you.
The core of this entire discussion with all the nuance removed is as follows:
I like this thing
The thing you like has problems
No it doesn’t you’re ugly and stupid
rabble rabble rabble rabble
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could’ve fooled me with the way this conversation went.
You forgot that between “The thing you like has problems,” and “No it doesn’t!” lies “And you are a bad person for liking it.”
I didn’t stutter.
No. I do not believe that. You are putting words in my mouth.
I believe it is a personal and moral failing to put it on the front of a video game box to sell product. It’s also a failing to defend it and say it isn’t a problem.
Liking it is just liking it. People like what they like.
However, the way you are so emotionally and irrationally defensive about liking it, and imaging that people are attacking you for liking it, I see as a symptom of the very problems with it that you are denying the existence of.
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Have you -ever- listened to and read Scott and Rym and other’s opinions on this sort of media and those who consume it?
Do I look like Rym or Scott?
(I don’t) I’m not them. Try listening to the words that were actually said in this discussion. Not bringing in a bunch of stuff from outside it.
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You and Rym have literally, on your show, said “gross people I won’t associate with like this kind of thing” about slightly fanservicey anime. I’m hardly putting words in your mouth.
No cheating and leaving the thread to take anything I said elsewhere. I don’t have 15 years of records of dumb shit you said.
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Wow I bet you didn’t see this explosion coming. Keep going because the C D and E endings go super duper nuts and was a game in 2017 that I actually saw all the way to the end because of how crazy and existential everything got. I will cop to 2B being a bit cringy.
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Someone, I think it was nofungirl but someone at some point in the past on this forum said “This forum is not a monolith”.
I’ve said it a few times since and in some ways it’s helped me listen. I’ve been guilty of internally telling myself that “those two agreed on this thing that makes them on the same ‘side’” whatever that means.
Telling that to myself has helped me.
Shut up Luke keep out if this.
Haha thanks! Despite the cringy outfits, I’m enjoying the game. The next game I post about in the forums is probably going to be The Tetris Effect though.
Nothing controversial or sexy about Tetris…
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Honestly, what some of you seem to consider “slightly fanservicey” are things I would consider “unacceptable to view in public places.”
When someone publicly enjoys and defends certain media, it definitely informs my opinions about them. E.g., I definitely avoid anyone who wears that ahego hoodie…
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I was super surprised the other day when I read something Scott wrote and I actually agreed with it! Please don’t take him and me having any similar opinions about something as us being the same.
Here’s the thing:
I like plenty of perverted things, I’m sure. I’d find it weird if anyone my age doesn’t have some weird attractions or preferences or whatever. There really isn’t anything wrong with enjoying something weird, or problematic. I’m right with WhaleShark on this. Really.
But if I made those weird things part of my every day expression of my personality, that isn’t just me liking weird stuff any more. That’s me projecting that out into the world. If someone already knows about that, and knows it’s not for them, that’s fine! But I’m not going to tell them they’re being closed minded for not exploring the boundaries of what they already find offputting.
It’s fine for you to be enjoy stuff that I find weird. Please don’t try to convince my I won’t find it weird if I do more research. I’ve done the research. I now find my life better by not doing more research.
I also have a better life not listening to advice on this topic from people with anime avatars. The crossover between people who take this personally and those who have anime avatars is about 99%, so for the sake of the 1% of people who can have an intellectual discussion about lolita fashion choices who can also understand that me doing research into that area weirds me out? I’ll not take that chance.
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What about when you declared through implication that a specific art piece is offensively objectifying to women…to a woman despite the fact that she explicitly called you out for assigning all women the same standards of male gaze as you have
or when you stated that you are incapable of believing that a woman wearing overtly sexual clothing may have chosen to wear it because she wants to, only that it must be tied to something problematic.
just, fuck man, this is exactly what I called you out for when I jumped into this conversation. Who the hell are you to arbitrate what is and isn’t problematic vs. empowering? 2B crosses the line into problematic territory, at least according a majority of people posting here, but when I asked you to actually provide an argument instead of a mandate you put words in my mouth and started comparing me to bikini-mail apologists and gamergaters. All I did was bring up that people might have different standards of negative sexualization and you labelled me an enemy for daring to not be as a sex-negative as you.
Media needs to be more respectful and inclusive. It needs to objectify characters less, but more specifically it needs to objectify women and minorities far less. As a lefty in a lefty space, I assumed, however foolishly, that I could believe this and also call out creeping repression of sexuality and assumed to be arguing in good faith, but I guess not.
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Seems like there was just miscommunication and we don’t disagree?
this whole time I have been restating that agree with your assessment that 2B is objectified, I think we disagree over to what extent, but that’s neither here nor there. I think the main crux of our disagreement(s) stems from whether problematic material can be recuperated or if it’s verboten, and we can argue that till the cows come home.
What I DO disagree with is your overtly authoritarian treatment of your own and other’s opinions, and I try to call that out whenever I can.
What I find constant umbrage with you is your knee-jerk dismissal of anyone not brandishing the exact same form of leftyism as you. I find your attitude overly shaming and alienating,.
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I play PUBG. It’s a game where to win you have to shoot people in the face. Not actually, but in a computer game simulation.
My girlfriend really can’t cope with video game depictions of human-on-human violence. She doesn’t like watching it, and will only enjoy PUBG videos where it’s about silly driving stunts. So when we play games together, we play games which don’t revolve around shooting people in the face. Like this year: Subnautica (made by someone who didn’t want to make another game about shooting people in the face), Goose Game, Dream Daddy Dating Simulator.
When I talk to her about my PUBG games I modify my language. I don’t talk about how many “kills” I had in a game, I talk about “knocking someone else out the game” or similar.
She likes watching true-life murder documentaries. I can’t cope with them. Because unlike computer games, at the heart of the entertainment is actually real human suffering. So when she talks about this kind of TV, she prefaces with if at the end (or start) of the story if someone is killed.
Anyway, both of us have something that we enjoy that the other finds distasteful. But we don’t try to impose it on each other, we don’t feel we the other needs to do more research so they can better understand what the other person is comfortable with. We also don’t make either thing such a big part of our identities that we take personal offense when the other person expresses their distaste.
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