Now that Donald Trump has Won


I absolutely 100% agree with that.

As for the rest of what you wrote though,

Using “Abolish ICE” as a political rallying cry is a national issue. You think Republicans in swing districts won’t bring up what’s happening in other parts of the country? You don’t think Republicans will say “The Democrats want to abolish ICE, so if you elect Moderate Candidate X, he or she will support that agenda?” Of course they will. Again, it is much easier (and much more importantly a better political move) to have a political rallying cry against family separation than about abolishing ICE. Who wants to separate families? Answer: Monsters, that’s who, and don’t vote for the monster. Abolishing ICE is a much more complicated issue and much harder to capitalize on it.

Do you think it’s a coincidence that Nancy Pelosi is mentioned in pretty much every Congressional race in the entire country? EVERY race takes on national consequences these days, especially when you’re talking about something like Abolishing ICE. Every time liberals bring that up, they are making it harder for Democrats in swing states to win.


I’m loving how Fox News is essentially cutting promos for ACO. They’ve done more to get her message out than any liberal media these days. If you have winning policies, this isn’t a bad thing if Fox News brings you up constantly.


Can we have an informal forum rule where people can’t post bullshit performative anger statements like this?

You aren’t going to leave the country. Stop saying you will. Practically no one on this forum is going to leave the US, join some fictional or as-yet-to-be-formed revolution, and fight the evil empire. This isn’t Star Wars.

Give me a break.


Emily and I have discussed this at length. Wr made our hard decision. We have specific plans to leave if certain things happen.

Some of our triggers have happened, and I’ve already put in paperwork to be able to rebase myself. I have a concrete plan to relocate my job with three cities already lined up. I have a path to citizenship with all three. I’ve also lined up a backup job in Sydney if relocation fell through.

Don’t assume I’m not serious.


Why do you think a couple weeks ago, Republicans in Congress absolutely LOVED the idea of holding a vote about abolishing ICE?

"GOP members loved the idea: putting Democrats on record backing a measure that could turn off swing voters — or voting no and rebuking their own colleagues. It would also be an easy unifier for House Republicans, who are still licking their wounds from their own divisive immigration battle last month…

Meanwhile, members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus are also fuming over the liberal move to eliminate the agency, arguing the effort distracts from the ongoing family separation crisis and President Donald Trump’s broader immigration crackdown while handing Republicans a cudgel to wield against Democrats…

Other lawmakers say they worry it will easily allow the GOP to paint Democrats as backing “open borders” heading into the final months of midterm campaigning, a messaging that could imperil Democratic efforts to win several swing seats and take back control of the House."


If that’s the case, then why are Democrats in the minority on all 3 branches of government? Well, other than the whole “voters are morons” issue.

If progressive policies are a winning platform but voters are too dumb to vote for them, then I guess they’re not really a winning platform, are they?


My wife and I renewed our passports and started looking into getting jobs teaching English in Japan or Korea. Some of us are quite serious about the possibility.


Heck, even I have my EU dual citizenship in my back pocket if needed. But it will take much more shit hitting the fan than the Democrats losing in 2018 and even 2020 to make me leave the country. Of course, I’m not ruling out the possibility that said shit will actually hit the fan, even though I’m hoping it’s pretty slim.


Because they haven’t been running on progressive platforms? In fact democrats haven’t been running on much of any platform in the last ten years.


Honestly I don’t really have a strong position on a particular strategy for reform/change/abolish ice, but will support any candidate that pushes for any reform be it overhauling, destroying whatever keeps us from breaking up families, treating refugees like criminals and fixing our stupid and damaging immigration policies.

So do I think as a policy minded folk that running around Abolish Ice in every district is going to be helpful, probably not, but do I care if people in Extremely Blue New York city or California push for it. Not really. I need the power seeking coalition that I agree most with to win, we can have an argument/debate amount those who are already of the same side as to how best to deal with the issue. For now Abolish Ice Or Reform Ice Or Punch ICE, lets win and figure out how we change the system for the better once we have won.

Honestly don’t think there are many people who are going to change their vote because your position is reform ICE or Abolish ICE both are going to get portrayed as the same radical position. I mean Clinton was the most liberal lib that ever libbed cause she was a Democrat, it didn’t matter how progressive or neo-liberal she was.


Fine, but that’s generally my point. Things will have to get way way worse before you’re willing to leave the country.

We’re having a serious discussion here about the merits of Abolishing ICE. Injecting hysterical statements about leaving the country doesn’t add to that and just distracts from the real arguments. Most people are just talking out of their ass when they say they’re going to leave the country or they’re going to join some “resistance” movement. It’s performative anger.

In another thread, I wrote that if you’re willing to leave the country, you should also be willing to relocate to Maine or Alaska to try and tip those states Blue. Moving to another state is the less drastic option, and could actually bring about some actual change in the political system, rather than just relocating to Tokyo or Sydney.

But back to our real discussion about abolishing ICE…


Umm, hello:

  1. For families making less than $125,000 a year, we will eliminate tuition" for in-state students at public colleges.
  2. Pass comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship that keeps families together.
  3. Stand up to Republican-led attacks on this landmark (health care) law—and build on its success to bring the promise of affordable health care to more people and make a ‘public option’ possible.
  4. We will do everything we can to overturn Citizens United.
  5. Fighting for equal pay.
  6. I will not raise middle-class taxes.
  7. Say no to attacks on working families and no to bad trade deals and unfair trade practices, including the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
  8. We’re going to increase the federal minimum wage.
  9. As president, Hillary will expand background checks to more gun sales.
  10. Clinton would increase federal infrastructure funding by $275 billion over a five-year period.

Seems pretty progressive to me. Or how about a candidate that lost to a Republican in Montana’s recent special election:

Affordable healthcare, progressive taxation, reproductive rights, equal pay for equal work, environmental protection, public education, LGBTQ rights, gun control. Also pretty progressive, yet she lost.


You don’t run as being in favor of “reforming ICE.” You run as being against the forcible separation of families. Find me someone with any humanity at all that’s willing to disagree with that statement.


It’s a jobs thing. I can’t get a job in my field in those states. I can in the EU. :slight_smile: But that’s just my situation.




Nice way to cherry pick one single issue. Medicare for all would be a good thing, but it’s not the end-all, be-all of progressive policies.


That’s the point!!! To get more voters you need to dumb it down! Most conservatives are single issue voters! Democrats should not complicate their platform with high nuanced lawyerly platforms. Lets test this out

  1. Medicare for all
  2. Stand up to Republican-led attacks on this landmark (health care) law—and build on its success to bring the promise of affordable health care to more people and make a ‘public option’ possible.

Which message do you think voters would prefer? Furthermore, one actually takes a stand and moves the needle forward. The other? Defend the status quo. How trite.


I mean at some point as a candidate your going to get asked, what your position on ICE is and when you answer that you’ll be placed in the “reform ICE” bucket…


Fine, but that doesn’t mean that Democrats need to be shouting “Abolish ICE” from the rooftops.


Yes, let’s dumb it down:


“Abolish ICE!”

“So wait, you’re for open borders?”

“No, ICE was only created in 2003 and isn’t actually in charge of the borders. In fact…”



“Families should not be forcibly separated!”

“Who would ever disagree with that??!!!”