Now that Donald Trump has Won


#262

I can confirm that people with green cards (legal permanent residents) have been detained at airports or stopped from boarding planes to the US. The lawyer group I’m in on Facebook has quite a few people who are out at airports assisting those folks. Apparently CBP officers are trying to get them to sign a form that voluntarily gives up their green card by telling them it will make things go faster. This is some Grade A Bullshit.


#263

This is one of those stories, that seems kinda whatever until you read the details and realize that his National Security Council now includes Steven Bannon but doesn’t include the director of Intelligence or the Chairman of the Joint Chief’s…


#264

This doesn’t make sense. Nothing in Trump’s executive order references section 223 of the INA (which governs re-entry permits). Everything I am reading in the executive order is limited to sections that govern visas.


#265

According to reports, the DHS initially concluded that the executive order didn’t apply to US legal residents, but Bannon personally overruled them and instructed them to ban resident visa holders as well. http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban/


#266

Resident visa holders? Are you referring to a green card or some type of visa? Because the EO is clearly targeting visa and NOT green card holders. Even if Bannon provided guidance if it’s not in the EO it’s NOT in the EO and his guidance can be ignored.


#267

I mean all types of visa that allow residency in the US, including green cards.


#268

I think we are having a terminology issue here.

Visa = temporary permission to be in the USA for a specific purpose. NOT residency.

Green Card = permanent legal residency in USA. All rights of a citizen except voting. Not a visa.


#269

Yes, the agents enforcing the EO do not have clear guidance on who it applies to, so they are detaining as broadly as possible to make sure they catch everyone. Some new guidance/clarification is coming out from the White House, but there still is no strong, clear guidance for the agents on the ground.

Basically, it’s a shit-show and no one knows exactly who/what is covered.


#270

My bad, I didn’t know there was a distinction. When the ban was initially implemented Saturday, customs officials turned away individuals with green cards. According to the reporting I’ve seen, DHS did not think that the EO applied to green cards but Bannon told them specifically that it did.
Reporting today is that the ban is being rolled back for people who already have green cards or visas, but CBP is still detaining people at Dulles and generally putting themselves in position for contempt of court rulings.


#271

I wonder how much of the confusion is:

  1. genuine.
  2. agents who don’t like the new boss doing as much as they can to frame this change as the biggest fuck up ever.
  3. agents who genuinely enjoying fucking with foreigners.

PS: I want to know why autocorrect changed “fucking” to “living”…


#272

I think the confusion is the White House legitimately not realizing that the EO wouldn’t apply to green card holders and ordering DHS to detain them anyways. And then racist CBP agents deciding that “activist judges” with court orders can’t tell them what to do.


#273

CNN has a surprisingly good story on this confusion. DHS head John Kelly has ordered the court ruling to be enforced and Green Card holders should be exempt, but Bannon seems to be trying to overrule the order and Kelly’s authority.


#274

Aside from the mix-up over green card holders what is the biggest deal over the executive order? Obama had a six month ban on Iraqis coming to the US during his administration and Carter banned Iranians during his. There is no “Muslim ban” in the order either.

Most of the reporting is reading like an overblown tantrum based on a misreading of the order or simply crying wolf. I am not on team Trump but the EO reads clear to me in only impacting visas from a small set of countries and also includes plenty of exceptions and waiver options.


#275

Regardless, something like this needed to be incredibly clear if it was to be acceptable by the general public. Your ruling regime should make it’s new laws absolutely crystal clear.
However if it was written and propagated clearly then that would deny the alt right from -
“Yer! Keep dem Muslims out DJ, we gon’ be great again, like when the dinosaurs were around!”


#276

Do you really not know what it’s about?

Multiple judges, reading the text of the order, “cried wolf” within 24 hours. So it’s probably a big deal.

The vibe I get from your posts is frequently Well actually, it was about states’ rights, it’s not a ban on one religion, why can’t they use the bathroom I want them to?

Who gives a shit? Quit being an apologist for bigots.


#277

Bleeding heart liberal think tank Cato Institute has a better explanation of the problem than I can write:

More specifically, you seem to be confused as to why this is illegal, especially in light of the Iran hostage crisis and Obama’s immigration policy. This explains quite clearly why those historical examples are different than the current ban.


#278

INA 1182(f) is pretty clear;

*(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.*

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187 is also worth reading as it specifically blocks people from certain countries.

I have read *legal analysis" that says what he did was legal and others that have said it was not. Both cite the same law!!!


#279

http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/barack-obama-ban-refugees-did-iraq-iraqi-muslim-trump-jimmy-carter-iran-iranian-immigration/ It’s pretty different…


#280

My question is one of legality not morality. Is the Executive Order LEGAL? Does the President have the LEGAL authority to do what is in the Executive Order.


#281

That’s for the courts to decide.