Im curoous of in the 40s the average American soldier was there to fight Nazis, there to defeat the Axis powers including Hitler’s Third Reich, or there because they were drafted to fight for Uncle Sam and because America was obliged to defend its allies who were very much in need after the neutrality angle was not going to fly, just like last time.
And while fighting the Whermacht and Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine were the Allied soldiers comforting their pshyche with the fact they were giving just comeuppance against evil Nazis, or just fighting back against the military of Germany and its allies?
I am just wondering because it seems like theres a sense that America was fighting and murdering Nazis and never had a Nazomen problem when it seems that many a GI may have had no gross moral objection to Naziism at the time other than maybe reported war crimes, and was there to just stop a rampant German Death Machine. Certainly the US quickly flipped the script to saying “Germany is all good now, the Commies we just spent 5 years arming are now the great Evil”
None of this is to suggest Nazi beliefs are anything good. But I get a sense they were not hated at the time by all Americans, even soldiers in the field may of had sympathizers for rhe Nazi ideologies even if they agressively faught the Third Reich and despised the war machine and war crimes the Germans unleashed.
I dont know my point other than it feels like theres always been people who feel this way so maybe its not so surprising there are contingents of people who can be sympathizers to the whole Aryan Superiority thing even if they or their families faught German aggression in WWII. I mean obviously there are some now. I guess I’m just wondering maybe it always was that way.
And then the other point being America was never about murdering Nazis, except when politically required. America and the Allies were indeed fighting the Third Reich and working on ending its terribe reign, but we took many of them prisoner and treated them according to rules of war even then. Did some individuals go above and beyond and execute some SS on principal? Fuck yes they did. Was that frowned on? Officially yes. Did anyone get punished for capping Jerries? Rarely.
Im all for ending rhe Nazi scourge by force where required, and the nazi punching idea is amusong and encpuraging when practiced but I fail to see a greater end goal that results from the doctrine. Even if a net positive its not am effective strategy. Neither is a homegrown attempt to play Mossad and go Nazi Hunting against idiots from 4chan with polos and tiki torches. The shame campaign seems to actually be a bit more effective in this age and circumstance and the amusement we can share watching these fools suffer under the turnng tide will be better than seeing rising death tolls in the Race War those groups are trying to incite.
And if my history is wrong please correct me, I’m all for knowing more about it all.
Other than government intervention, we have the rights to kick them out from where they stand. They have no other position than for a white ethnostate, not even caring if it harms the lives of Jews/Blacks or anyone else. There is no negotiation or compromise to be made there. What, do we promise them that everyone will slightly cut their own arm to make them satisfied? Not gonna happen.
The twisting of “we must give everyone a seat at the table” has what allowed them to rise to prominence again because they understand how to weasel and abuse the system. Just because you know how to do that doesn’t give you a free pass to continue to do so. The little boys who knew how to do it in high school don’t get away from that shit because that’s how you get people like Trump who believe they are flawless and beyond approach.
They can try to lawyer up as much as they want to, but the slow process of justice isn’t going to let them get away with this shit easily.
This weekend, the Nazis marched into Charlottesville. Counter-protestors opposed them. It ended with 1 dead and 36 injured after one of the Nazis rammed into a crowd with a car. What the fuck more are you asking for?
The spirit of Free Speech isn’t going to come alive like an angry Djinn to do that. Sorry, we already have some laws that do prohibit levels of speech and hate speech, so any of that ideal libertarian shit doesn’t work. People say “the power of the free market will intervene” when that never comes to pass. Hell, people capitalize off more from this level of soft acceptance than suffer.
This is anecdotal but I had great uncles that all went to Europe and what little they had to say about the war was basically fuck Nazis and everything they stood for. These were men from very mixed urban immigrant neighborhoods so take from that what you will.
If you’re going to quote me, then quote my whole statement. Don’t play games with my words. I am in no way saying that I would do nothing, or that we should do nothing.
Yes, and that person was arrested and will hopefully go to prison for a long time. What does that have anything to do with punching a Nazi for simply waving a flag or speaking?
Again, Ninjarabbi asked his question (jokingly) in the abstract. If someone is directly trying to kill you, then by all means, defend yourself. My point, which I keep having to make over and over again is that speech in the abstract is not a direct threat. Waving a flag is not a direct threat.
I’ll even qualify and say that speech can be a direct threat in some instances, like with the death threats and other abuse that women journalists and other advocates experienced with GamerGate people. A message sent to an individual, with that person’s address, or pictures, is a threat. Nazis shouting slogans is not a threat. It’s speech. Protected speech.
What could you possibly take away from someone zeig heil-ing, snarling in the dark while marching with torches (tiki or otherwise) and waving a flag with a swastika on it other than an explicit threat?
The police (claim) to have taken the militia guys brandishing of firearms to be an explicit threat.
And I’m telling you that you are making an unreasonable demand. You said:
If someone on this forum can show me an example of a Nazi killing someone by waving a flag, or by making a speech, directly killing someone, not inciting others, then I’ll concede the point. Until then, you’re just engaging in thought police.
What I am telling you is that to be a Nazi is to incite. Nazis permanently incite murder and violence. To wave a Nazi flag is to advocate for the extermination of jews, blacks, etc. and political opponents of the Nazis. That is what they have done in the past and what is their explicit goal in the future. That is why that asshole ran a car into a crowd of counter-protestors.
Of course nobodies dies from the speech alone, but every Nazi speech is either de facto advocating for violence and murder, or propagating Nazi political power and we know what their goal is and why they want to accumulate political power.
This cancerous growth on my arm isn’t killing me yet. It has a right to life just as much as any other living cells. I won’t resort to chemo and radiation until it’s actually hurting me.
Again, we’re not talking about what happened in Charlottesville. And again, militia guys brandishing firearms is a lot different from speaking and waving a flag.
If someone has a Confederate flag hanging from their house, or from their car, is that a threat? Should I be worried if some guy in a pickup truck drives past me with a Confederate flag bumper sticker? If I’m as terrified as Scott seems to be, does that give me the excuse to stop that person and punch him or her? There are matters of degrees.
And what I am telling you is that until the Nazis use actual physical violence, we fight their words with our words. That’s not doing nothing, that’s not looking the other way, that’s living in a society where people are allowed to believe and say whatever they want. Because to use a “hyperbolic” example as some people have accused me of, to some people, every Planned Parenthood speech is just as much advocating for violence and murder of unborn fetuses as the Nazis are.
And you know what, what you and everyone else on this forum is missing is that we’re winning that battle. The reaction to this past weekend is proof of that. When the general public condemns the attacks, when the people in the President’s own party criticize him for not speaking more directly out against hate, we’re WINNING. Let the Nazis and the KKK march. Let them wave their repulsive flags. I’ll be meeting them not with my fists but with my words. And every law passed giving Gays the right to marry, or makes it easier for minorities to vote, or that allows Transgendered individuals to use whatever bathroom they want, I’ll just smile at those fucking Nazis because we both know that I’m winning this war.
Or it could just be a birthmark and you’re a hypochondriac who’s worried about things going bump in the night.
Can we get some of those militia guys out there protecting the counter-protestors next time there’s a Nazi march? I’m sure there’s plenty who aren’t a big fan of Nazi’s.
Everyone, this guy literally advised someone to snitch on themselves. Anybody that would do that with a straight face will snitch on you. Don’t talk to snitches, they are collaborators. They won’t lift a finger to help you when the Nazis come for you and they are probably the one that told them where you live.
You understand that there are a lot of people, in America, in 2017 (especially in 2017), who have to consider the possibility of bodily or mortal harm if confronted with someone with a Confederate flag bumper sticker, right? Like, actual people get beaten and killed by proud Confederates on the reg, right?
To those who read that The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, did the Nazis stop protesting or change their tactics when we gave them more leniency? Did they get silenced over time from incidents like this? Not sure, hmmm…
I don’t even know what the heck you’re talking about anymore.
And I’m just as sure that you understand that not everyone who has a Confederate Flag is on a murderous rampaging killing spree. People can be frightened of them, but the fact that someone has one hanging from his or her house doesn’t give you or anyone else the right to attack them.
And you seemed to have conveniently ignored my example of someone with a Confederate flag DRIVING PAST me. According to Scott, just the fact that I see that flag should be enough to trigger me. If someone drives past me with a Confederate flag bumper sticker, even if that car doesn’t stop, even if the person driving it doesn’t get out, I guess according to Scott and the rest of you I have every right to turn around, follow that person, and punch him or her when they get out of their car.
