What movie have you seen recently?


No, that actually sounds slightly better.


That’s called All of Me. I remember that being pretty enjoyable, but it’s a fairly standard 1980s Steve Martin comedy, so don’t expect anything other than that.


Is it the one with a large amount of finger sucking?

I remember less of that one other than the finger sucking and the affair the lady had with a gardener. I was probably between 5 and 10 when I saw these.

I remember liking it. Was Richard Pryor in it too? I remember a bit where the lady’s soul ends up in another guy and Steve Martin is really happy but kisses the wrong cheek and ends up kissing his friend not the old lady.


Yeah, that’s the one.
I feel like 80s / 90s comedy movies generally don’t hold up too well, but people really only watch and talk about the ones that do. Not that they don’t have funny bits in them, it’s just that there is basically no reason to watch anything but the top few.
I see old movies on the big screen pretty regularly because it costs $75 to get a season pass for 20-22 double features at the theater near me. A lot of them I probably wouldn’t bother with otherwise but occasionally find something good I would’ve missed.


I too went to see Black Panther yesterday, but I am still unsure about my thoughts. The movie was really good, but not to me personally a milestone in movie making which appears to be the overall consensus of people I follow on twitter. This may probably be simply because I, as a white male, am not a core target audience member, and I am A-OK with this. I can still appreciate the rather Shakespearean plot, the genuinely strong characterization, the acting within it, and the fact that it is a culturally significant piece of art for hundreds of thousands of other people.

What I also noticed is that the movie is tonally very different from pretty much all other Marvel movies so far. The film has very few comedic moments in it, which draws it in sharp contrast to the three offerings in the MCU directly preceding it, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Spider-man Homecoming and Thor: Ragnarok. This seriousness also feels genuine and appropriate, not like the on self-parody bordering “seriousness” that a film like Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice had.

In particular I noticed that there is little “witty hero banter” in the fight scenes and in fact doing so is used to make the initial villain of the film more obnoxious and reprehensible.


The core audience is Marvel fans.


Y’know, I noticed this but didn’t quite realize it. It has a couple of one-off witty lines that got a laugh, but it portrayed its conflicts with respect and seriousness. I really liked that extra gravity.


I do remember that scene too, but I don’t think it was Richard Pryor. IMDB says he wasn’t in that movie.


Black Panther though…

I want more.


when does Okoye get a Netflix series?


The Breadwinner is an incredible movie and really establishes Cartoon Saloon as a new powerhouse for animated films. Really well told, gripping portrayal of Afghanistan during the rise of the Taliban and how they were so harmful to women. It all felt so real and the way each time Parvana leaves her house made you so tense. Really compelling way of showing how stories motivate us even in the darkest circumstances. It’s on Netflix now, fucking watch it. Absolutely worthy of it’s nomination.

Speaking of that, I know a lot of people were pushing A Silent Voice to get recognized too but it’s really not a good movie. It’s a very manipulative, melodrama that feels far more suited to a 12-episode series like AnoHana than a 2 hour movie. What’s worst about the movie is, I never felt like the deaf girl was her own character. The movie felt like it was one of those tales of a disabled person’s struggle that’s all about teaching an able-bodied person how to live. The movie was just really unfocused because some characters never got a lot of attention and some of the bullying from other characters was never addressed. I think a few of the relationships work like with the green-haired kid and the deaf girl’s younger sister…so I can’t hate this movie but it is very very overrated.



It is always interesting for me to hear what Marvel movie dislikers think about these films, given that I am 110% invested in the whole cinematic universe. Looking forward to the spoiler episode.


I’m of the opinion that every Marvel film is garbage with the exception of Blade 1.

Black Panther is a great film on it’s own. It doesn’t need any attachment to the Marvel universe. Didn’t even know it was a Marvel comic nor a comic.


I found Black Panther very frustrating. It’s full of really great characters and looks beautiful, but as the movie went on I had more and more story issues until the questions in my head overwhelmed my enjoyment of what was happening on screen.

It’s amazing and disappointing that a movie that has so much going for it ended up being the least enjoyable MCU movie since Age of Ultron.

Like Axel I’m all in on MCU movies. It’s been something like 8 movies in a row that I’ve wholeheartedly enjoyed (despite some weaknesses). I’m way more enthusiastic about this series than Star Wars or other franchises, so it’s extea disappointing this one didn’t do it for me. It became merely an okay movie experience, and I’ve just come expect better from Marvel Studios.


What kind of questions?


The same kind of story issues I have with all kinds of blockbuster movies, including other MCU movies, but that I can usually put to the back of my mind and enjoy the movie. Maybe the movie was lacking in other areas to make these fridge logic stand out too early, but I’m not sure, as I mostly liked it.

Just some off the top of my head and HERE BE SPOILERS:

  1. Why was the vibranium war hammer important? Why was Killmonger working with Claw in the first place? Why was he going along with Claw on these missions?

  2. If Killmonger just had to defeat T’Challa in ritual combat, and he knew the old king had died, why didn’t he turn up in time for the initial ceremony?

  3. If all he needed to do to gain entrance and favour in Wakanda was to kill Claw and present his body, why didn’t he do that earlier? He already knew him, worked with him, etc. Why did he wait until his partner was being held hostage, then have to kill his partner, then kill Claw? Why not just do it right away, in time for the initial ceremony, and not go to London and Busan?

  4. If Killmonger could challenge T’Challa outside of the ceremony, after he had already become king, why did he wait until his uncle died? Why not challenge the old guy before he was killed by the bomb at the U.N. headquarters? Why wait until 3/4 of the way through this movie?

  5. If it’s a fight to the death or submission, and someone survives, shouldn’t everyone head back to the waterfall to see it completed, rather than just have a battle above and inside the vibranium mines? If the rules are so sacred, sacred enough to change the absolute monarch, you’d think they would be written down somewhere.

That’s just my collection of issues with one character and one question of one part of the story logic. By itself I could probably ignore it. But there were many other issues which just seemed off.

By the time the two tribal armies started fighting, all I could think was “How do any of these soldiers know who they should be fighting and why? Especially because the two leaders of the two armies are married?” Then the rhinos turned up, and I was thinking “How do the rhinos know who they should be killing?” The whole battle seemed pointless. Why would ANY army follow ANY leader who chose to submit to a king like Killmonger for any reason, to fight against the army lead by that leaders wife? The movie didn’t convince me that tribes that had been at peace for so long would kill each other over this kind of thing.

Like in Civil War, there was a super hero battle, but they were joking and saying lines like “But we’re still friends, right?” The question was the same too: “Do we use our power and get involved in solving the problems of other people, or do we sit back and let the world sort it out?” I understand that the powered people are fighting for this, and each one gives the reason they are fighting, even if it “I dunno, I’m just with this guy.”

But in Black Panther, huge numbers of Wakandans are killing each other with seemingly no reason given to them. Do they all understand the politics of the council of elders? Are they fine with killing their former friends?

It makes the whole political process of Wakanda and their transfer of power to new leadership look so hopelessly naive that it’s almost insulting. How can Wakanda be so advanced in so many areas but not work out smooth transitions of political power? Have they not watched Game of Thrones or anything?

I have many other issues, but I don’t want them to take away from the fact that I mostly enjoyed the movie.


I want to think the whole reason Killmonger was involved with Klaue was to drum up support for his claim and his ideas once he attained the throne.

I think the initial mission in London was about putting Klaue on T’Challa’s radar. Rescuing Klaue from the safehouse made T’Challa look incompetent. Bringing Klaue’s body to the Wakandan boarder makes him look like a returning hero, he succeeded where T’Challa failed.

As for “Why not challenge the old king”, it’s incredibly likely that T’Challa would have been able to fight as proxy since he was the Crown Prince.

FWIW the latest Black Panther comic have been dealing with the idea of transitioning the government into more of a Constitutional Monarchy.


I understand that there may be reasons these issues are there, but I’m not sure it’s up to me to to headcanon my way to those solutions mid-movie.

Like the waterfall ceremony. All I could think was: “Is this being live-streamed to the rest of the city?” and “Is there a rule about falling off the edge of the waterfall?” and “If the person survives the fall, what happens then?”

The latter thing actually happens, of course. But the new king has already been crowned, so when T’Challa comes back, is he still the king? Or is he not the king? And if they said he was murdered, but was then corrected to say it wasn’t murder because it was part of the ceremony, then when T’Challa comes back and kills Killmonger, is THAT murder, because it didn’t happen as part of the ceremony?

If the rules are so strict that everyone immediately accepts Killmonger as a new king, how can those same rules allow any ambiguity just because someone falls off a waterfall which seems to be specifically selected for such a duel? How can such an obvious outcome not have something written down to sort it out which doesn’t require a married couple to lead their armies into battle against each other?

Why am I thinking about this during the climactic battle sequence of the movie?


See, the only thing I was thinking about was why the Crown Prince had access to the herb. Only in the MCU has T’Challa has been the Black Panther before becoming King of Wakanda.

I guess the concept of “Win by Ring Out” doesn’t exist in Wakanda, and no one’s ever survived the fall before. I do know Killmonger throwing T’Challa off a waterfall is one of those “Classic Marvel Scenes turned into Storyboards.” The circumstances were completely different but they wanted that scene.


Yeah, I thought it was an interesting story choice that they had T’Challa be the Black Panther before he was actually king. Like you wrote, in the comics, he became Black Panther and king at the same time.

Also in the comics, T’Chaka is killed when he’s much younger, so it makes a lot more sense for T’Challa to become Black Panther and king at the same time because you don’t have an old T’Chaka who, presumably, can’t function as the Black Panther, but is still king.