I still don’t agree - well, OK, I agree that what George is talking about is a dirty trick, but where I disagree is that this is necessarily bad. So maybe I disingenuously initiate the conversation, but steer it into an agreeable direction; maybe the icebreaker was rough, but the overall interaction is consensual. That depends on identifying your demographic with a goal of ultimately appealing to them.
Some conversations are consensual by nature, though initial contact may not be. If I ring your doorbell to start a conversation, but part way through you get a bad vibe, you can cut it off. This gets hairy if you’re talking to somebody who won’t accept “no,” but let’s assume you’re training your political canvassers to not be shitty like that.
Basically - I accept that it’s shady, but if everyone comes out ahead, I think most people will forgive the initial contact.
I don’t see these as distractions… I see this as patterns of behavior. Trump’s a bully, he only sees something as a win if everyone else loses. He doesn’t give a shit about anyone who doesn’t personally kiss his ass and/or gives him money.
When people use manipulative, disingenuous, and carefully calculated tactics to try to elicit specific responses I’ve always always had an incredibly negative reaction. And I had that sense even going back to pre-school. It’s always made me sick. I kinda think it relates to schizoid personality in certain ways. Every random office comment I overhear where someone acts as anything other than “themselves” grosses me out.
So I’d rather not see those tactics used. If that’s how it’s going to be, let’s just fight it out and have a proper civil war between the adults on both sides. Or if this is going to be all sports teams and bullshit, let’s do this like Robot Jox. At least then the argument isn’t which side can manipulate the pawns better, it’s who can build the better robot.
Start from the first point in the chain, an old fashioned duel between two equals, supposing they think their positions are intractable and worth the risk of themselves. That seems completely moral to me. Extrapolate from that point further till you see the issue become muddy, wherever you want to draw that line in the sand. If you reject my premise, that’s fine, but I’m not surrendering that point, which is that you can have conflict that is acceptable.
The gulf between “duel” and “war” is mind-bogglingly wide.
“let’s just fight it out and have a proper civil war between the adults on both sides” > “So what you’re saying is that you’re more comfortable with killing other people than manipulating them? Hmm.” > “If it’s done with integrity, yes.”
Do people not see the hyperbole of the first statement, especially when I followed it immediately with Robot Jox? Maybe people don’t remember that movie. You have to think a couple steps further. Modern war is just as full of corruption, child killing, and pawns being used by the wealthy completely safe backers for their own interests. The great propaganda machine is just another engine to accomplish the same things. The people with power and the decisions being made are indirect and easily corrupted. More easily corrupted as technology advances. Why not actually have out with your conflicts in earnest somehow? Actually face your opponents?
One of the biggest faults with democrats and the current political landscape is an obsession with politeness and civility. It’s the idea that any moral taboo is worth putting on the table if it is phrased or presented in what’s considered to be the “correct” way where people were complimenting Richard Spencer for being a well-spoken, appropriately addressed man. There’s also the idea where people can’t rightfully call out people for being racist or xenophobic or even lying. NPR is incredibly self-damaging in this respect because they refuse to call Trump’s lies as lies because of perceptive desire to be “objective.”
Considering how we’ve become so divided despite the fact we try not to be, shows how inefficient the mass media is at pushing the idea of “Facism = Bad” forward. The Republicans really don’t care and it’s just showed further in the candidates like people who want to be like Trump and the fact that an uncomfortable amount of people were fine to have people like Roy Moore nearly elected to office.
