General Tabletop RPG Thread

Yeah, I saw that when I read through the OG Chainmail rules and Gygax just put it out there directly. I didn’t know it went back even farther, but it makes a lot of sense considering that miniatures wargaming was around for quite a while and required players to basically make up and consent to rules.

In case you weren’t already aware, Zine Quest 3 is on!

1 Like

I recommend Hibernation Games: 5 Journaling RPGs for Solo Play. It has several fun creator but I rather liked Lucian Kahn’s prior work, Visigoths vs Mall Goths.

Lucian Kahn confirmed S-tier.

1 Like

Can we all agree that this is about damn time?

"Both eras will be depicted in these books, giving players the tools to create their own protagonists. Someone might create a group of Earth Kingdom heroes during the war with the Fire Nation, or a waterbender finding their fortune in Republic City.

The roleplaying game’s core book is planned for a February 2022 release. Two supplements will follow. The first one, to be released in August 2022, is named Republic City. Republic City was first established in The Legend of Korra as a newly industrial and modern city with a population of millions of people from all over the world. Republic City has a lot of political conflict, industrial sectors, and triad gangs that menace the public.

The second supplement, The Spirit World, will be released in February 2023. The Spirit World was a major element of both The Last Airbender and Korra, a parallel plane of reality full of spirits that embody aspects of nature, or creatures like Koh, the Face Stealer."

1 Like

Hopefully they are mechanically elegant.

Because I have memories.

s-l500 51KK7HD62ML.SX364_BO1,204,203,200

Apparently, the company that’s adapting Root into an RPG is also adapting Avatar/Korra.

1 Like

I assume since the Root one is PbtA that these others will be as well?

I like PbtA a lot, but it actually makes me less interested to play the Root RPG because of it. I feel like that setting could really have been amazing if they did a completely custom game from the ground up.

After months of struggling, I am now a mediocre Dungeon Master.

The Group has changed, as people here suggested, some players weren’t really into it and left. I picked up two more and it is going well.

Unfortunately, I say “Dungeon Master” because despite my personal frustration with Dungeons and Dragons, it’s the system everyone could get into.

But I’m regularly interacting with people, and Eberron is my favorite setting, so I’ve got that going for me, which is nice.

5 Likes

That’s been the supposition since all the other games that Magpie has done are

  1. PbtA
  2. Good

I’ve been looking for an excuse to try out the Cortex Prime system and AtLA actually seems perfectly suited to it. I might build that just for kicks.

Apparently, Cortex Prime is also doing a Dragon Prince RPG.

2 Likes

:thread:

1 Like

Wrt. Verisimilitude, it’s worth mentioning that a lot of consternation comes from the fact that the gunslinger: a wild west cowboy archetype, exists in the sword and sorcery game. If you come at it with the above “d&d is everything” mindset, you think someone is telling you that “people who like wild west/guns arn’t allowed to rollplay/anything that’s not midevil is bad fun”. If a group of people sit down to play a sword and sourcery game, and someone really wanted to play a cyberpunk game and decided they wanted to play a cyborg, I think saying that “wizards exist” is missing the point"(and in bad faith in some situations). You’ve expiriences a major miss in terms of matching expectations.

This fits into a larger flaw/discussion of d&d wherein people (imo badly and clumsily) try and compensate for the fact that “martially inclined” characters are pretty weak. They generally have less options and less powerful and more limited options. Like, if you look at skill rolls, things like jump have a lot of human bounding working in. What use is a 8 ft vertical jump when your wizard friend can fly. I get the feeling these days that a lot of these flaws might be less severe if you consider deeply that d&d is written a a combat rpg with interstitial sections rather then trying to run it without combat/with interstitial combat(it makes “skill characters” less bad because skills become a nieche thing rather then just a “be good at the game” button). That said, I think it’s to some degree worth just recognizing instead of trying to hack around. Because often people divide classes into martial/magic, it also lends people to want to not ever use magic, and there isn’t really a lot of support for that(even the original d&d compinsated by allowing fighters to use magic weapons).

That said, gunslinger has some other awkward things. Called shots is a thing that people often want, and it doesn’t really play well with the assumptions that are made in base combat. Hitting touch ac is kinda weird and super powerful in some situations (before ac becomes meaningless). Things like damage confuse and frustrate players who don’t understand the abstractions of damage, or don’t care and just want “a thing that instantly kills things” because guns are good/strong. This is balanced by the misfire mechanic, but people hate it because missfires are frustrating. It exposes how different people think about guns(ie, are you thinking about wild west cowboys, or are you thinking about pike/musket troops), which leads to confusion and frustration.

edit: it’s probubly worth mentioning that it’s a expectation miss from their side in not expecting gunslingers to exist. pathfinder is awkwardly a world where every genre exists at the same time. I don’t think it’s what most people want, or a responsible or reasonable way to do things, but it is a thing, and it’s also silly to not recognize that.

I think it’s not just that “D&D is everything”, but that D&D is also its own thing. One built by a long series of systems building on each other, media influences going out into the world and filtering back into the system, changing cultural touchstones. Too many people think about using D&D for everything, but it’s not everything… It’s just weird.

Guns/Science Fantasy is probably some of the oldest bits of the game (Hello Barrier Peaks), and Dying Earth, one of the places the magic system is drawn from, is a dying future fantasy. There’s a lot of ways people can build a setting where guns make sense, and some of it gets easier when you think about having societies built on magic instead of built around burning mages. Eberron is a strong example of this, you have “robot” people, trains, and high-rise cities.

On the Martial/Magic divide, I think that a decent amount of what’s been done in recent versions of the game is to treat the characters like protagonists. They just become awesome. Fighters become capable of inhuman feats of skill or strength, making that incredible leap when your wizard friend has to burn a spell to do it. The rogue? He ran along the fucking wall! It feels like that’s some of how the balance has been handled in more recent versions.

I don’t like the system anymore, but I still love so many of the trappings that make D&D weird fantasy. I like the idea of a group of elves and weirdos stumbling on a river gambling boat. Playing with things outside of what the framework of the system works for, but the setting can handle. And maybe that’s why there’s a lot of people that still try and make D&D work, because there’s something weird there that they want to bring out in their game, and it’s not matched by another system.

I remember watching a video going into the history of D&D through it’s changes, and there was a big rant about rogues existing. Like when rogue came out, someone sent gygax a homebrew class called the thief(iirc). The thing was that it took things that before then were considered “things that everyone should be always trying to do”, made them even stronger and then gave them exclusively(assumed) to the thief class. the “downside” is you wern’t able to like, base build and stuff, but you got to be better at “dungeoning” (you know…the game). Gygax saw it and was like “I like dungeoning, I should include this class in the game”.

There’s a strong strain of that being the case/wanting to be the case in the community, but it’s not really supported by the text. In 5e, a bard can outjump a fighter every single time with (or sometimes without) the double athletics boost. There’s a lot of balance provided when people use the “rule of cool” to balance things(which generally revolves around skill checks, things bards esp, but also rogues/wizards can do a lot better then barbs/fighters). Some of “fixing this” also involves having the gm account for martials not having much raw backing by arbitrarily changing what skill checks/etc mean for martial classes on the fly). Even then, a raw skill check RAW isn’t very mechanically powerful(jump skills max out at honestly not terribly fantastical levels, esp considering that to be able to consistantly make some of the checks you already have to be fairly high level. Like, we’re comparing wish to 8 feet high jumps here.

there are a lot of fantasy rulesets(ie, things that share a lot of flavor), dungeon world, burning wheel, etc. A lot of people don’t know about them, or feel afraid of learning something new(/can’t convince anyone else to come to the table unless they preceed it with the words “d&d”)

Edit: one sidenote: wrt “can do it unlimited times per day” feels a lot like a hypothetical constraint in most cases. Most games to my knowledge never run into the point where resource constraints in that respect become meaningful. It requires a lot(especially at higher levels) to actually exhaust a party. Even then, you don’t necessarily have to do so for differences to be relevant.

2 Likes

And that misses the exact point I was trying to make. I can’t account for everyone’s tastes (and don’t get me started on BW), but it’s not the same flavor much of the time. Dungeon World is really loose, and might be able to get closer once you incorporate community playbooks. “Fantasy flavor” is like saying “A restaurant in NYC,” it doesn’t say anything other than what neighborhood you’re starting from. Lord of the Rings is not Elric is not Perdido Street Station is not The Stormlight Archive. In some senses, D&D is a boxed pizza. You know what you’re getting, it’s not the best, but you’ve got tricks you use to pretty it up to a slightly better meal.

And I did say I didn’t really feel like defending 5e or PF as a ruleset. They don’t have the gameplay or mechanical parts of the game I want to interact with the most. But the idea of a warlock, the implications of that kind of magic VS a sorcerer VS a wizard… there’s story ideas there.

And yeah, too many people just don’t want to step out of their comfort zone of D&D. Had a GM in our group that hesitated to play anything but D&D, and now doesn’t want to go back. System mastery probably plays a part in people’s hesitation. I know my brother’s group still plays mostly 3.5, which confuses the hell out of me every time I hear it.

2 Likes

ahh yes. I mentioned them because they’re my full mental pool of “fantasy rpg games”, and I think they should both be able to handle “group of elves and weirdos stumbling on a river gambling boat” in some way or another. Definitely depends on what you want out of your rpg(which I think varies. Although I think some of the things people latch on to are harmful, or indicate a lack of careful consideration about what specifically people want in a rpg). Like, some people exist who just want there to be lots and lots of numbers and mechanical choices. I personally have my own opinions on this(it tends to make the game center more about “challange of completion” in the best cases, but often comes from a variety of unhealthy places. Like more things must = better game, or wanting enough room to optimize to break the very precepts of the game, or various kinds of anti-social behavior the ruleset allows them to do). It’s very hard to communicate around these things though. You might have some specific feelings about some flavor choices(I know burning wheel in my example has a lot of very specific and nieche flavor elements that are easy to disagree with, like “what elves and dwarfs are”). Some of the things that excite people are weird artifacts about how d&d is organized(people don’t usually like thurges because they’re super into the idea of “smart cleric”(I mean this is already a thing that clerics can be), but because it lets them cheese out having all the spells).

1 Like

Looking to get another Wednesday night Discord game rolling, and I’m looking for people who would be interested.

When: Wednesday nights, EST. Start time between 6 and 7 pm. The average session would be about three hours.

What system: Lancer. I want to run a giant robot game, and this one is currently hitting the right spot for me. (https://massif-press.itch.io) Player’s version of the book is free, and there’s a powerful webtool for character generation at: COMP/CON.

1 Like