Not that my opinion matters, but these are all valid criticisms of Nancy Pelosi that I agree with to one degree or another.
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Is cheating to achieve good ends evil? What if using o let good methods will result in evil succeeding in accomplishing its goals? Is there really an alternative? You donāt want to use unsavory methods until you have no alternative, but maybe that tipping point is a bit earlier than people recognize. Now seems good.
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In the instance of those bills, Sheās trying to give her members running in more conservative districts things that she can say ālook Trump and the Democrats agreed on this, it only failed because the senate sucks maybe you should look at them for Fing things upā
They have also passed Really left āmessagingā bills to die in the senate.
When no one wants to play ball itās āmake messaging bills like they have early in the term and itās make bills to make your opponents look bad like the Prescription Drug bill.ā closer to the election to show that they donāt actually want any compromise near the election.
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Do you have data this type of political messaging works anymore? I highly doubt it, and honestly believe that the path for treating these edge case districts is to rally new voters by energizing them with bills that actually fix problems rather than playing āhey donāt blame usā politics.
BTW, really left politics turn out to be really popular.
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Well From the conversations Iām reading in this thread itās clear none of the progressive folks even remember the raft of very liberal bills that Pelosi passed from 2006-2010 that died horribly in the senate. I guess not considering most probably dontā know all the bills they have passed since 2018ā¦ But poll after poll shows Americans want some sort of working relationship and compromise./dealing making from their Congress. (THOUGH FOR SOME REASON WHEN THEY SEE DEAL MAKING THEY HATE IT but thatās a different story).
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Democrats owned all both houses of Congress between 2009ā2011
Have you ever heard of the Fillbuster and Joseph Fucking Lieberman?
Also this
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Isnāt Joe Liberman an example of the politicians you said we should appease with less than ideal bills so they stay onboard? Seems like keeping them around might be a bad idea.
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I donāt get to say who makes bad decisions in Connecticut :-p The Dās actually beat him in the primary in 2006 and he ran as a independent and wonā¦ Soooooo.
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I believe if thereās been a genuine failing of the Democratic party in the past decade itās more the choice to make bipartisan decisions than just trying to push ideas they want. The conversation was always āLetās agree with the GOP, letās appeal to moderatesā rather than reverse the question of āLetās make republicans appeal to usā or āLetās have them push more to our moderation.ā And I think there has been some devastation to those half measures with Merrick Garland or caving to some of Trumpās demands by not making more of a stand.
That being said, Iām gonna still hold out hope that the Democrats can do the right thing otherwise thereās nothing left that can be done for the system without change thatāll be dangerous for lots of other people. And honestly, Iām pretty tired of nihilistic leftists who think nothing can be changed or nothing will be good enough until we have revolution.
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We are so outside of Impeachment we should bring this conversation into one of the other politics threads hahaā¦ before I start talking about medicare for all and how CTās reliance on Insurance for itās economic strength will sniffle any shot at universal healthcare.
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This could be me just trying to excuse prior Democrat behavior, but I honestly believe that up until only a few decade ago, a majority of the country was moderate, so it made sense for the Democrats to push for bipartisan solutions. This is just my own pet theory, but I actually think that it was the Republicans going so far right, so bat shit crazy, so intent on destroying government and everything it does to help people, that made Democrats wake up and realize that they need to go left, not just stay moderate.
I mean, just to use one example, everyone hated the ACA when it was passed until the Republicans tried to get rid of it entirely, and then all of a sudden you have moderates liking it, when their health care is about to be taken away or theyāre about to lose coverage because of a pre-existing condition. I really think it took the Republicans to go off the deep end for Democrats to wake up and embrace more liberal and progressive ideas.
Still waiting on this.
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And nobody with power learned this lesson.
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Come onā¦
Look at the platforms of the people running for President. Look at some of the Representatives who won in 2018. Like Rym wrote above, the Democratic Party is
Itās unrealistic, based on that, that every Democrat would be a progressive liberal. Thereās always going to be a spectrum, but, at least to me, it definitely seems like the Democratic Party has shifted left.
I might be getting semantic, but I feel like they are in the midst of the shift, and itās far from definite that it will last more than 4 or 6 years.
I mean, youāre not wrong about the party shifting, but politics are always shifting. Thereās always a constant shift to one direction or the other.
Iāll be the first to admit that Iām not a huge fan of Bernie Sanders. I like his policies but think he would make a terrible president. That being said, I will give him credit for energizing people towards progressive politics and I donāt think that energy or that shift will dissipate or reverse direction in 4 to 6 years.
Iām just not that optimistic.
The problem you always have to bear in mind is that the most important voters in America are the dumbest and least informed people living in a handful of the remaining competitive states.
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Iām not sure how old you are, but Iām 40, probably one of the older forum members, and Iāve found that a lot of Millennials, for lack a better word, are pessimistic and even nihilistic when it comes to government.
In my opinion, feeling that way is basically letting the Republicans win. Theyāve done so much to destroy the political process and the functioning of government that many younger people have lost all hope of things ever changing. Iām not saying that politics or government were ever perfect, far from it, but we canāt give in to that pessimism, that nihilism.
By doing that, youāre basically saying that the Republicans have accomplished their goal.
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