The Impeachment of Donald Trump

Exactly. I’m increasingly annoyed at people who naively decry her leadership, despite the fact that she is one of the strongest speakers of the house in modern history.

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I’m sorry, I really don’t understand the genius here? This fell into her lap and after she was unable to convert any of the Russian efforts into any actual oversight. Yeah, starting impeachment here is the right thing to do, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that.

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She was waiting for the opportunity.

Mueller didn’t move the needle at all. Anything connected to that by itself would result in a guaranteed failed impeachment.

This was a standalone issue that is very simple and direct. It was the first such issue that presented, and she jumped on it aggressively.

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Sure, but I wouldn’t say it elevates her to being “damn good at her job”. She’s doing the bare minimum of what I would expect a Speaker of the opposition party to do. Also, I think we need to wait until the actual proceedings take place to see if she’s able to actually convert this scandal into actual action, or if it backfires.

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Out of curiosity, what else would you like her to do?

It’s easy to play back-seat-driver for Nancy Pelosi and say that she’s doing the “bare minimum,” but trying to wrangle 240+ House members, with varying degrees of political ideology, dealing with the national media, coordinating with Schumer in the Senate, and having to withstand the blowback from Trump and the Right Wing media-sphere is a monumentally complex and difficult job.

In the coming days and weeks, Nancy Pelosi will have to convince, cajole, browbeat, and threaten her caucus, she’ll have to walk a tight-rope in the media between wanting to have an impeachment inquiry and actual impeachment, she’ll have to turn whatever facts continue to emerge as a weapon against Trump and the Senate Republicans, she’ll have to withstand Trump’s tweets and who knows what kind of threats she gets.

Saying that Nancy Pelosi is doing the “bare minimum” is like saying that a neurosurgeon is just doing their job when they remove a life threatening brain tumor.

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See how Republicans use every dirty trick imaginable to use power, abuse power, and get more power? That’s what I would like all Democrats to do. Play dirty. Yes, abuse power if necessary, Break laws and ignore norms and do every evil thing Republicans do. You can’t beat a cheater if you insist on following the rules. Just do it towards good ends instead of evil ends.

Obviously the ends do not always justify the means. However, you can indeed justify a lot of pretty bad means if your end is good enough. Since the stakes are literally rescuing our democracy, a lot of methods that would otherwise be morally unacceptable become morally imperative.

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Not overplaying your hand is a pretty big skill in politics.

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If you want to talk about strategic geniuses you talk about someone like the New England Patriots. How do we know they are so great? Because they WIN. They get results. Six championships and even more appearances over nearly two decades. You can’t argue with that.

What results exactly do these weak Democrats have to show? What have they ever won? The ACA, ok, that’s it. If they had rammed through true universal single payer health care I might give them a point for that. Meanwhile as evil as Republicans are, they keep winning. They take, use, abuse, and acquire more power using any method necessary. Evil ends, but if anyone is a strategic genius, it is them.

You can’t claim to be any good what what you do if you don’t have any wins. The same weak ass “strategy” democrats have employed for all these years hasn’t won shit, and there’s no reason to suddenly praise it as genius or a winning strategy now. Until you win, you’re just a bunch of losers.

Imagine someone saying “Cleveland Browns. Strategic geniuses.” That is what it sounds like.

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Pelosi should have weaponized the continuing resolution against the GOP instead of passing it without really getting any concessions. It’s the one real bargaining chip we had and she wasted it away.

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The continuing resolution undermines the stability of our government, which is the bedrock principle of the Democratic Party, that we need government.

The Democrats were never going to weaponize that. That’s like asking Republicans to support abortion in order to make inroads with women voters.

lol ok well then what’s the point if we don’t play hardball when the other team does? This is exactly the criticism against the establishment Dems. Y’all are Charlie Brown against Lucy playing football.

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The next time Nancy Pelosi drive around the Rainbow Bridge course and hits the question mark box, she’ll get the invincibility star to defeat the Republicans.

Trying to compare real life politics to sports makes about as much sense as it does to comparing it to Mario Kart.

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To be honest, I’m just really frustrated that any criticism of non-GOP politicians is somehow haram here. Y’all will go to bat for the most milquetoast politicians and really set a low bar. Expect better! It’s OK!

If they were going to lose their power and had no option but to support abortion to keep power, they absolutely would flip on a dime. Look how fast they flipped on every single issue where Trump’s ideas did not agree with Republican ideas.They never wanted to enter a trade war, for example, but they are more than happy to support it now, or at least keep quiet and go along with it.

Also see every single video clip displaying Republican hypocrisy. Most recently people are replaying the ones from the Clinton impeachment where Republicans are so in favor of impeachment over a BJ, but now are saying that the much more serious and numerous crimes of Trump are no big deal. They have no ideology, yes even on abortion. They only do whatever it takes to acquire and keep power. They care only about winning, and we must do the same.

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I mean the moment that people could actually see Trump getting impeached and suffering the consequences for his actions, there will be some Republicans who will start bootlicking and immediately jump ship just so they can be the first to say “I never trusted him, I was being held against my own will in the dangerous community of GOPers”

I think the impeachment process will start to make some of that happening. No way is it gonna happen to all Republicans, but I’ve atleast heard enough stories of people who have stopped supporting Trump cause that was their abitrary line too far.

You want to criticize a non-GOP politician? Go ahead. No one is stopping you. If they’re valid criticisms, many people including myself will agree. But multiple people, just in this thread alone, have asked for examples on what people would like Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats to be doing differently… and all we get back is silence or ridiculous answers about the New England Patriots…

It’s easy to criticize Establishment Democrats, but unless you have something to contribute, no one will take your criticisms seriously because they’re the empty tantrums of an ideologue.

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Empty tantrums of an idealogue? Really? Empty answers?? I legit recommended using the CR to extract budgetary concessions!

I’d love to believe that Pelosi is some kind of strategic genius, but I don’t see it. It’s like everyone is doing some mental fill-in-the-blank that there’s some really tense and satisfying Sorkin walk-and-talking going on.

Also holy crap.

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Your comment came off as a bit “why can’t I just say what I want without getting pushback in this political discussion” (which probably triggered Jabrams a bit, which I don’t agree with the trantrum part).

I think you confuse a “low bar” with a achievable bar. (which to be fair is low right now)

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Gonna have to disagree there. The Democratic Party for decades has been the party of the professional class suburban and urban liberals. They don’t advocate strongly for any of the things you want because it doesn’t much affect them. They have pursued a muscular military policy and a developmental policy of free trade, competition, and shrinking the public sphere, with a socially liberal twist. Like the entire history of urban policies in cities(which are dominated by Democrats in most cases) in the latter half of the 20th century and early 21st century has been racist tough on crime policy and sluicing gentrification. They have only changed in emphasis as social forces have changed but their wasn’t this big shift in policy that made them “cowards” They and their professional class base just have different priorities, with some bullshit rhetoric thrown to us queer and poc poors from time to time.

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