I find the way the statue crumples to be amusing.
You are being really optimistic. Maybe you are right, Iād hope you are right. But where you see loss I see nothing of such. Just because nazis donāt hold absolute power right this moment doesnāt mean they have lost. Nationalist movements have been in the rise, not only in US, but in EU too and maybe also elsewhere. In many places they are strong enough to have actual political influence, Iād claim that includes US. I see lots of reasons to be worried and lots of reasons to be actively against nazis and nazi sympathizers.
3 Likes
I feel like a broken record saying this, but you, and a bunch of other people are still missing my point.
For the last timeā¦
Just because I think the Nazis have already lost doesnāt mean we should be complacent or that we shouldnāt be actively against them. And just because I donāt think punching them is the solution doesnāt mean I want to do nothing. Nazism and the hate that the Alt-Right spout is an ideology. You canāt punch an ideology. Thatās like fighting āterrorism.ā Howās that working out for us so far? You need to find the root of the ideology and destroy it with your own ideas, to change the circumstances so the ideology doesnāt flower. If drones and bombs canāt kill terrorism, you really think punching Nazis is going to work? Give me a break.
I should create a new topic on this forum called āPunching Nazis - The Most EPIC Shit Talking Thread of ALL TIMEā because the amount of chest thumping I see here is almost comical. The only Nazis you or most people here are going to confront are in their videogames. Iām sure youāre going to feel real proud of yourselves clicking on their heads.
Instead of talking shit, get off your ass and go out and protest, go out and volunteer for organizations that can make a REAL difference. Get your hands dirty in actual politics and activism instead of coming up with strategies based on fictional comic book characters.
Iām done with this.
You underestimate how seriously we take this.
You think we donāt? Do you know how many protests have been in the City in the last six months?
That is not true at all. The Weimar Republic was one of the most enlightened, progressive, democratic societies in modern history (especially in the context of Europe at the time), and it slid into fascism in mere decades. Slavery was ended with bloodshed. The civil rights movementās small steps forward were drenched in the blood of black men and women. Progress on these issues has never occurred with civil discourse alone.
8 Likes
When it comes to shit-talking, while there seems to be a definite degree of that here I think youāre being uncharitable and well off-base. Iām inclined to take people at their word on comments like these:
I donāt think channeling your frustration into a snarky dismissal is helping your case here. You accuse people of missing your point, but I think you yourself need to put in a more serious effort to grapple with the issues people have raised. In short:
- Why wonāt violence work as a means of suppressing fascism? Scott gave an argument for it, and while I donāt think that argument fully holds up I think that if you want to continue the argument on the other side you need to address his points.
- Whatās the alternative, better approach? If itās simply a matter of speaking out against Nazis, isnāt that what weāve already been doing? If so, why is it that the alt-right been on the rise over the past couple of years despite all of the efforts to fight those ideas with our own ideas?
2 Likes
No, I donāt underestimate it at all, I just think that punching Nazis is the FRC rage-induced masturbatory fantasy equivalent of actually doing something.
I know there have been lots of protests in NYC in the last six months. How many did you go to? How many did Scott? What about all the other forum members here who are so eager to go out and punch Nazis when they havenāt done shit other than making bold proclamations here. Typing doesnāt require much effort. Actually getting off your ass to march and protest and shout and hold up signs does. I live outside of DC. I went to the Womenās March, I protested the Travel Ban, I went to the March for Science. Iām a lawyer. I volunteer for the ACLU and help out the Southern Poverty Law Center. What have you done? What have others on this forum done? I get mocked and called all kinds of names because I donāt want to punch Nazis? I do more against Nazis in a week than most people here do in a year.
I donāt mean to specifically pick on Scott, but since he seems to be one of the biggest shit talkers in this thread, I will. Itās no secret, and you yourself have talked about how absolutely uninvolved in politics he is. He doesnāt care. The idea that Scott or a bunch of other people from this forum are going to actually go out and confront and punch Nazis is frankly ridiculous.
I know that some people on this forum are actually politically active, but unsurprisingly, theyāve been quiet and havenāt been participating in the circle-jerk of rage that is this thread.
2 Likes
Heās not uninvolved. Heās uninterested in debating first principles.
Iāve been to protests where the only thing between me and racists were riot police so you can fuck right off if you think I donāt do anything.
4 Likes
Ok so this is a question I want to ask. How many people here have, since they became an adult, actually punched someone. Like full gone at someone with the attitude of fucking up someones shit. Or even been punched. Not play fighting but someone has smacked you as hard as they can. Youāve seen red, let the monkey brain out and made someone bleed. You have made another person cry from the pain that you caused. That you made someone scared of you because you beat them.
Because most of this talk come across as my dads harder than your dad. This shit talking that goes nowhere. Being in a real fight fucking sucks. You can get fucked up from one bad punch in the face, its not something to throw around easily. I should know I used to fight a lot and it hurts. It hurts your hands, it hurts your body and it hurts your brain. You have to live with the fact that you hurt someone badly. I still feel bad ten years later about some of the fights I had playing rugby and that was ages ago. You have to live with the consequences of your actions, that you might be fine with now but when it comes to it you might not be. Its easy to talk about it on the internet but when its down to brass tacks how many of us would actually hurt another person.
I ask how many of us have been in fights because if you havenāt its very easy to say you would. But when you have been in some bad ones you learn to hesitate to reassess. Iām not saying whether to attack these people or not. What Iām saying is take a look at yourself and question whether you actually can do that. I mean hell I go boxing three times a week and even with pads I still worry about hurting someone. I know these people donāt care, that they enjoy causing pain to others but we are better than that. Iām just saying that stop and think if your really ready to commit to this or if there is a better way you can fight back.
5 Likes
Twice. I beat up my sisters abusive boyfriend, I fought my roommate in college when he stole my share of rent from me and nearly got us evicted,
2 Likes
Ok thats as cool as it can be. But you do get where Iām coming from right?
1 Like
he said, unironically, in a thread of white male opinions.
I generally avoid people I would want to punch, but I have actively defended myself against sexual aggression multiple times, and fucked people up.
4 Likes
Oh no, it was entirely ironic. You seem to be the only person who picked up on it.
2 Likes
Its good that you where able to defend yourself. It must have been a shitty experience. Although not the same some people tried to mug me so I sort of partially understand as much as a guy can.
I asked because some of the most vocal people didnāt seem to have fully thought out their actions.
2 Likes
Speaking for myself Iāve been nothing but honest about this.
Going to protests takes effort and time. I have limited effort and time but what I do instead that requires low effort and 0 time is donate monthly to SPLC, ALCU, Planned Parenthood, NRDC &, the EFF. I put my anger and frustration into my work, then I donate my work in the form of money to causes I care about. I could quit my job and protest full time but does anyone want that?
jabrams007, I think youāve made some important points in this thread, and I think several people in this thread have treated you rather unfairly.
I donāt think ārage-induced masturbatory fantasyā is a reasonable characterization, but there is definitely a large degree to which the idea of āpunching Nazisā is more of a rallying cry than a genuine statement of intent.
However, I also donāt think your blanket accusation that people are doing all of this in place of āactually doing somethingā is justified. I can understand your frustration and the need to respond to the completely ridiculous accusation that you are somehow a Nazi collaborator, but even if people arenāt treating you charitably I donāt think itās productive for you to respond in kind.
2 Likes
And more power to you buddy. Violence is a terrible thing and should be avoided at all costs. I just wanted to know how many people actually had anything to back up their claims because a lot of it was coming across as keyboard warriors getting others to fight for them.
3 years of BJJ and I say every time I go. I am here for fun because this is a fun workout, nothing more.
1 Like
I know what you mean. There is a a strange catharsis in it at some times. Weirdest one for me was carrying a rock up a mountain.